| FirePowa8
:: July 20 2006 |
Are those randomized bell and muscle cuirasses? Very nice. :)
You might kill me for this, but I still think that the Spartiate needs long hair in someway or another, and also preferably a different shield design. The lamtha wasn't used until AFTER the fully armoured Spartan hoplite. You can see the eight mora designs they used here: http://www.spartanminiatures.com/PRhop.htm
Also, Leonidas shouldn't have a lamtha or one of the mora designs. He had a red, white and black solar design, like all Spartan kings. In the image of the Spartans at Thermopylae on this site, you can see the shield blazen I mean. The Spartiate king is recognizable by his red transverse crest here. This is based on one of the reliefs in Sparta, showing three kings with transverse crests and different uniforms.
It's a lovely looking model, I even noticed the blood on the xiphos - but I hope you don't mind those further suggestions. You can keep their silly sandals for all I care. ;) |
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| FirePowa8
:: July 20 2006 |
Oops, forgot to post the Spartan king image.
http://spartan-world.de/Sparta_Platea.jpg
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| Mythos_Ruler
:: July 20 2006 |
| Nice site there. :) You're right of course about the shields, but unfortunately we have to make a few gameplay consideration in this regard and make the Spartans immediately recognizable to the player. |
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| b.w.keough
:: July 20 2006 |
how solid is the historical information about the Spartans? I had thought that most of the Roman and Greek histories were written well after the events they chronicled (i.e. writing down the oral history).
one of the things that keeps me interested in history is that what we know is limited to the surviving artifacts -- but these weren't patented serial-numbered assembly line pieces, they were hand-made and could be highly individual, never mind the fact the carbon-dating isn't specific to the exact day. I try my best to take Paul's historical unit descriptions and personalize/individualize them until he reins me in.
oh, and as an artist, some of you have heard me say that I like red. what's to say that the guy the who painted some fresco or pot didn't just feel like painting a red crest? or had extra red pigment? or wasn't paid by the grandson of a Spartan general to portray his grandfather in the military style currently in fashion to help a propaganda campaign? (don't forget that most of the military sculpture was politcally motivated and paid for by the winner of the day -- that's why many ancient scupltures are defaced [literally!])
not trying to jump on you, firepowa8, just playing a card for the other side of the agument. :) |
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| FirePowa8
:: July 21 2006 |
The thing about my two arguments of shield blazens and locked hair isn't based on later writings, but rather on actual excavated artifacts. I'm sure you know what typical Spartan locked hair of this era looked like, four locks at the front, and four at the back, and sometimes all at the back.
The shield designs were reportedly found "in the thousands" in the Artemis Orthia temple. Since the lamtha was said to have only come after or during the major civil conflict of the Peloponesso-Athenian wars, then it's more likely that these shield designs were used than the lamtha. There are two examples of the king's shield design found in Sparta, one of them is a very light relief showing two men with transverse crests and showing their shields inside and out. We can only just see the design. That same design and it's cololurs are on a terracotta miniature also found in Sparta. It's said to date about mid 6th century, and Spartan hoplites didn't seem to change much until mid 5th century, so it's likely the shield was still in use during Thermopylae.
I don't deny that Greek artists used their work as propaganda, but this didn't seem to be so much the case in Sparta, who often denied their glory and thought of it as relatively nothing in comparison to the other Greeks. |
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| FirePowa8
:: July 21 2006 |
| Mythos, didn't see your post... if that's the case, then that's fine. :) Although I thought that the black helmets and cuirasses would be enough, anyway, I haven't seen the gameplay in action so I'll take your word for it. If not, then modding should be very easy. |
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| Mythos_Ruler
:: July 21 2006 |
Modding will be extremely easy.  |
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| FirePowa8
:: July 21 2006 |
| Great. In that case, I'm sure there won't be a problem. |
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| HistoryGuy
:: July 21 2006 |
| Awesome showcase! Nice to come back from a vacation and see something as excellent as this. :) |
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| Belisarivs
:: July 22 2006 |
Really nice, but, could be those Spartans more dreadful?
I mean, more muscle, longer hairs and so.
I know, that it was more their skill what scared enemy, not look, but still.
They were heavy infantry, not light athletes, after all.
But nice work anyway. This is just detail. |
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| Mythos_Ruler
:: July 22 2006 |
You guys will be glad to know that the Spartans do have dreadlocks already. :D
http://www.wildfiregames.com/~art/mythos/dreadlocks.jpg |
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| FirePowa8
:: July 22 2006 |
| Hey, that's pretty nice. Was it not possible to put a couple across their shoulders, as well? I think that'd be the icing on the cake. |
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| Belisarivs
:: July 23 2006 |
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/3100/homoioi4ay.jpg
That is what I have in mind (thanks FirePowa8). |
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| Mythos_Ruler
:: July 23 2006 |
We'll work on it.  |
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| Belisarivs
:: July 25 2006 |
| Ah, another detail. There is too many Celtic men with white hair. I think, that in such age (if they even managed to live so long) they wouldn't be able to run at such pace. |
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| Mythos_Ruler
:: July 25 2006 |
The Celts have lime in their hair to make it stand on end. This is historical.  |
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| FirePowa8
:: July 25 2006 |
| And to bleach it... as a result, they went bald early. |
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| FirePowa8
:: July 25 2006 |
| By the way, would I be right to assume that the other poleis super unit is the Theban heiros lochos? |
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| Mythos_Ruler
:: July 25 2006 |
| You would be incorrect to assume as such. |
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| egel
:: August 7 2006 |
Lookin' good! Pity about the mora, but as ES says a little too often, gameplay>realsim...
Nah, they look great. |
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| FirePowa8
:: August 11 2006 |
This is how the Spartans would like with morae. Courtesy of Mythos Ruler, and I supplied the shields:
http://www.wildfiregames.com/~art/screensh...es-Warriors.jpg
I think they can definitely be told apart from other hoplite units with their helmets and transverse crests alone. Hopefully they can stay in the game! |
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| Leonidas I
:: August 11 2006 |
| one other thing...cant the sword be changed to a xiphos? |
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| Mythos_Ruler
:: August 11 2006 |
| It is a xiphos. |
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| FirePowa8
:: August 12 2006 |
| Maybe you meant a kopis? |
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| Paal_101
:: August 13 2006 |
Kopis are cool, but they were particularly popular in the 4th century. In the 5th the xiphos was the main side arm, although the kopis and the machaira were used, but not in the numbers that the xiphos was.
Unless of course you mean the Spartan xiphos Leonidas? That didn't come around until later in the Pelopponesian War IIRC, but I'm not certain. |
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| FirePowa8
:: August 14 2006 |
Spartan xiphos always looked a little different to other xiphos, although they didn't really change dramatically until late 5th century.
Kopis was actually used in 5th century a lot too, but the immense use of the xiphos was drowning its popularity. :) |
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| darkragnar
:: September 17 2006 |
| Im glad you guy's useing the Lakemdonian style of for the spartans instead of the underhanded more popular Athenian style , it shows u guys know your stuff and willing to get realistic. |
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| darkragnar
:: September 17 2006 |
Just 1 little titbit from my side,
it woudnt be possible to give the spatans Beards, coz most if not all of them had beards with there upper lip shaved.
I know it woudnt show that much ingame but that would be just another Educational lollipop for the masses. |
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| FirePowa8
:: September 20 2006 |
I think that these Spartans do have beards, I'm not sure though. The hair could probably be more defined by having four locks flowing over their shoulders (and four at the back) as it was, but if that's too difficult or out of the way, then I have no problem with how they are now.
As for the "shaved upper lip" thing... pure myth, likely started by Plutarch or an earlier historian. Although many Spartans did shave their moustaches, so did a lot of other Greeks, and others did indeed have moustaches. The Spartans were no exception. Trust me... I've looked at a lot of Lakedemonian art. |
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| Esus
:: September 24 2006 |
| As a little request, could you make it so Spartan Homoioi are /not/ incredibly slow? The most annoying thing about the Spartans in RAF is their extremely slow speed. |
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| Mythos_Ruler
:: October 3 2006 |
| I'll see if I can make our Spartans move as fast as the standard Hoplite Infantry Spearman. Greek spearmen overall will be slightly slower than other civs' spearmen, based on the sheer weight of their arms and armor. |
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| Gythiumspartan
:: November 11 2006 |
| We could make an Athenian army facing the Spartans in Marathon |
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| Mythos_Ruler
:: November 11 2006 |
| Why would we do that? The Athenians faced the Persians at Marathon. |
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| FirePowa8
:: December 7 2006 |
| I personally would like them to be slow unupgraded, though there should be some special unique upgrade to make all Hoplite units move faster, perhaps named after the new tactics of the Peloponessian war. |
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| HG-Alex
:: December 7 2007 |
| The update looks great. :) |
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| Belisarivs
:: December 8 2007 |
| Yes. It does. Bu why do they have black helmets? |
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| The Purple People Eater
:: December 8 2007 |
| Because it looks freakin' awesome! Lol, just kidding. But really. |
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| Matt
:: December 8 2007 |
| Is the old version still available? |
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| Mythos_Ruler
:: December 8 2007 |
| I've updated the showcase with a link to the "old" graphic. Enjoy! |
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| Mythos_Ruler
:: December 8 2007 |
There is evidence for black painted evidence being used. This evidence is mostly pottery depictions. There might be evidence in the form of pigment residue on recovered helmets, but I am not sure on that point. However, there are many depictions of Spartans wearing black helmets (although they are the minority of all Spartan depictions). We went with the black helmets to differentiate the Spartans from a standard Hoplite, and for sheer badassery. I mean, c'mon? Black is always cool!
Check this guy out. He isn't a Spartan, rather a "Thespian Melanochiton" or "Black Cloak". It's slightly ahistorical , but still a unit I'd like to include in the game after 0 A.D. Part 1 "ships". |
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| FirePowa8
:: December 9 2007 |
Still can't wait to play as these guys. Is it still randomized lamvtha for multiplayer, and morae designs for single player? Or could there be a mixture of both for multiplayer?
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| Finn
:: December 9 2007 |
| Very nice, Spartans rule!! |
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| carlinho
:: December 11 2007 |
awesome renders!!!!
really nice units!!!!!
anybody knows where i can get a high res texture of that spartan sun shield flat texture? |
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| The Purple People Eater
:: December 11 2007 |
| Well when the game is released, I'm sure you'll be able to find your way to the texture itself, but in the mean time you could probably find Leonidas' shield elsewhere, the only problem being all this 300 crap clogging up Google searches. |
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| Mythos_Ruler
:: December 11 2007 |
| http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/6756/shield1ty9.jpg |
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| The Purple People Eater
:: December 11 2007 |
| Omg, so high-res I can hardly bear it! |
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| carlinho
:: December 12 2007 |
thanks a lot mythos!!!!!!!
incredible texture!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| eggman
:: December 15 2007 |
| what is mora? |
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| Mythos_Ruler
:: December 15 2007 |
| "Mora" is the Spartan word for "regiment" or "battalion." |
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| eggman
:: December 15 2007 |
| thanks :) |
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| master ulises
:: December 15 2007 |
| hi will the soldiers have battle positions?what i mean by battle positions has to do again with RTW where the troops had a position to resist the enemy assaults maybe to form a good solid phalanx (for the greeks) rather than just a bunch of soldiers standing still waiting for death. also you might consider putting that (if you will) for heavy infantry such as hoplites and roman legionarys and deni to lighter less organized troops and armys such as the gaulic tribes and their guerilla tactics to apply a bit of realism |
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| master ulises
:: December 15 2007 |
| not saying that the gaulic tribe were completly unorganized their just an example maybe it could be a late upgrade and a bit weaker |
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| Mythos_Ruler
:: December 16 2007 |
| Units will have a "stance" which is a low level AI script that determines how the unit will act, when not under high level command of the player. "Stances" include Defense, Aggress, Stand Ground, etc. Some units will have different idle animations based on their stance. We'll also have different kinds of formations, some available to specific civs and units. So, the game won't just be the standard "mosh pit" of AOE fame. |
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| master ulises
:: December 16 2007 |
| cooooooooooooooooooool on your next screenshot you should put Thermopylae or marathon showing the greek phalanx. |
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| master ulises
:: December 16 2007 |
by the way ive been wondering about the seige feature and are you gonna give the enemy troops a more organized way of dealing with the players seige.(heres the period Omnicron)
what i mean is when i seige an enemy city, their troops start attaking unorganizedly wasting their resources and making the seige dreadfully easy.
I want more of a challenge, a long lasting Tyre,Troy,Athens like seige. |
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| master ulises
:: December 16 2007 |
ok i found a way to frase it better, i want the enemy to defend its self.
I want the enemy to see me as a conquerer from hom they must defend themselves rather than the opposing player they must destroy senselessly, triggers are to complicated some kind ai behavior script. |
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| master ulises
:: December 16 2007 |
| (no edit)triggers are to complicated maybeit should be some kind of ai script |
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| eggman
:: December 16 2007 |
| will there be a way to control which way the units face? I always hated trying to get my army of paladins in AOE to be both grouped in a line formation, and to have the line facing a ceriain direction. |
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| Mythos_Ruler
:: December 17 2007 |
| Certain things we haven't worked out yet until we have working formations. Interface questions will have to be addressed at a later date. |
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| Scipii_Alemanus
:: December 17 2007 |
I still remember that First Spartiate Screenie. it was the first Showcase I saw.
Not that anyone but me cares. |
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| eggman
:: December 17 2007 |
| aye aye captain! |
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| master ulises
:: December 21 2007 |
| Will religion have Any real effect on the game? |
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| master ulises
:: December 21 2007 |
and while im here will there be climatic changes that might effect like a sand storm, a snow storm, a tropical storm or just a storm. doesnt have to be to detailed, just replace common rain with a bunch of snow balls(flakes) or dust for the sand storm.
something like that.
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| thespartan
:: December 28 2007 |
BEAT THEM UP for sparta
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| Raziel
:: March 17 2008 |
| go sparta!!!! the spartans rule |
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| Luis_Hoplite
:: May 27 2008 |
Are the black helmets historically-based?I don't like them
and sorry for bad english |
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| chrispy bacon
:: July 18 2008 |
| great keep on going with the good work |
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| HistGamer
:: September 22 2008 |
| Wow so far, i see the hellenes factions getting lots of great work done, design and shield banners are looking top notch- Probably include some blood on the dead, or spears sticking out and arrows etc... more realistic.. But great work in showcasing the units! |
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| feneur
:: September 22 2008 |
| Blood (and the other things too) are among the things which we will focus on later. You can see some experiments with blood in a few of the latest screenshot though. |
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| HistGamer
:: September 25 2008 |
| Ye I did, look good, thanks! |
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| Alex44
:: October 4 2008 |
spartans will be dominate
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| Alex44
:: December 7 2008 |
| make sure to add the different formations the spartans had like: the triangluar one to push charging cavalry to its sides like a wedge, and the cresent when the spartans would circle the enemys by letting them push the center of the phalanx in making the outside curve around and slaughter the enemys by the back end |
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