233 replies to this topic

[Geek377]

The Colosseum was really Imperial Rome so I don't think it would be appropriate in Part 1. While we are at it, ziggurats and pyramids would make excellent choices for wonders!

[Mythos_Ruler]

So, guys, we need people to start modeling these. Come one, come all! contributors, do your best!

[dvangennip]

Geek377, on 09 July 2012 - 02:58 AM, said:

The Colosseum was really Imperial Rome so I don't think it would be appropriate in Part 1.

Mythos_Ruler, on 09 July 2012 - 03:12 AM, said:

So, guys, we need people to start modeling these. Come one, come all! contributors, do your best!

I assume most of you are already aware, but when I was 'scavenging' the public mod files this weekend I stumbled upon a quite nice model for the Colosseum. It seems to lack textures though. Still, enough other civilizations to cater to

Edited by dvangennip, 09 July 2012 - 12:59 PM.

[hhyloc]

Some Celtic or Iberian "wonders" would be nice, although they are not as spectacular as other Hellenic or Roman ones.

[wrod]

Geek377, on 09 July 2012 - 02:58 AM, said:

The Colosseum was really Imperial Rome so I don't think it would be appropriate in Part 1. While we are at it, ziggurats and pyramids would make excellent choices for wonders!

dont they already have pyramids in the atlas?

[Anofackú]

Great Altar at Pergamon?


Theres also tons of Celtic monuments and wonders, even germanic ones. They werent primitive Barbarians you know...

[Mythos_Ruler]

Quote

Theres also tons of Celtic monuments and wonders, even germanic ones. They werent primitive Barbarians you know...

Like what?

[majapahit]

Building wonders should give different advantages on each civs. It would be even better if there's a capability to capture buildings and wonders.
Enemy can build a wonder that a player cannot build but player can capture it to give some advantages.

[oshron]

majapahit, on 16 July 2012 - 09:52 AM, said:

Building wonders should give different advantages on each civs. It would be even better if there's a capability to capture buildings and wonders.
Enemy can build a wonder that a player cannot build but player can capture it to give some advantages.

i say, for the purposes of random map/multiplayer gameplay, wonders that you can actually build should just be generic and give no abilities, except for a "wonder victory" like in the AOE games. at the same time, though, there would be special versions of those same wonders as well as others which grant different abilities

to give such examples from a different RTS (Empire Earth) there were six wonders that gave different abilities to the player that built them (keep in mind that some of these were misspelled in the actual game):

• Coliseum: expands population limit
  
• Ishtar Gate: makes your walls sturdier
  
• Library of Alexandria: reveals all buildings
  
• Pharaoh's Lighthouse (Pharos Lighthouse): reveals all water within a large area
  
• Temple of Zeus: makes all your units self-heal (as a note, no units in Empire Earth, except for heroes, could heal their own wounds, but since 0 AD has regenerating units last i checked, a wonder with this power could probably just increase their rate of regeneration as well as let them heal while working or moving)
  
• Tower of Babylon (Tower of Babel): allows priests to convert enemy units with an area of effect (eg, instead of converting just one unit out of a group, a priest will convert that unit and others nearby/next to it)

so, in the context of 0 AD, the Athenians, for instance, would have the Parthenon as their wonder which, under normal circumstances, just let them get a wonder victory if it stands for ten minutes or so in random maps. simultaneously, the editor would let a scenario designer access a different version of the Parthenon which would give some kind of special power, probably related to athenian culture or perhaps greek religion (since it was a temple to athena)

Edited by oshron, 19 July 2012 - 10:50 AM.

[oshron]

i was just giving examples of wonders and their respective powers from Empire Earth; of those listed there, the Tower of Babel and possibly the Coliseum should be excluded, the former because its more mythical than historical, and the latter because coliseums were found all over the roman world, so the one in rome wasn't really unique for its time. as i said before, something evocative of the roman senate should be given to the Pre-Imperial Romans as their wonder instead while coliseums are included in the editor for design purposes

alternatively, the Pre-Imperial Roman wonder could be the Roman Forum even though it would be less impressive than a coliseum or a mighty temple. ideas could also be taken from Age of Empires, from the first installment and its expansion for Part 1 and from AOK for Part 2; for example, a possible Hunnic wonder could be virtually identical to what it is in AOK: The Conquerors--a looted Arch of Constantine (or any exceptionally large arch) with broken pieces and a horde of treasure around it, suggesting that its part of a city that the Huns conquered even if its not exactly historical. in the case of the Huns, i think some leeway could be given on that matter since they were nomads and the hunnic empire never actually had a capital city, just territory that the huns controlled. after all, some artistic liberties have already been taken in the design of some buildings

Edited by oshron, 20 July 2012 - 11:44 PM.

[majapahit]

oshron, on 20 July 2012 - 11:43 PM, said:

i was just giving examples of wonders and their respective powers from Empire Earth; of those listed there, the Tower of Babel and possibly the Coliseum should be excluded, the former because its more mythical than historical, and the latter because coliseums were found all over the roman world, so the one in rome wasn't really unique for its time. as i said before, something evocative of the roman senate should be given to the Pre-Imperial Romans as their wonder instead while coliseums are included in the editor for design purposes

alternatively, the Pre-Imperial Roman wonder could be the Roman Forum even though it would be less impressive than a coliseum or a mighty temple. ideas could also be taken from Age of Empires, from the first installment and its expansion for Part 1 and from AOK for Part 2; for example, a possible Hunnic wonder could be virtually id

A wonder should be a building that amazes the masses. Coliseum vs roman forum? I'll stick with coliseum. (Reference as in gladiator movies)

[Mythos_Ruler]

The Roman Forum was multiple buildings anyway. Better to make the Temple of Jupiter Optimus Maximus and a couple of basilicas and some other eye candy (free standing columns, etc.), so designers can make their own Forum.

[oshron]

i know that the forum was more just a place BETWEEN buildings, but something thats supposed to be like the forum (maybe very large pillar surrounding a fountain on very detailed marble textures for the floor. another plus to the Forum being a wonder would be that, as far as i know, its never been done before in an RTS that includes the romans

incidentally, what wonder do you all think would be best for the Macedonians? i think the best choice would probably the the Library of Alexandria. and what about the Spartans? as far as i know, they werent big on building monuments, so maybe something fictional but based on something real could work? perhaps an emulation of the Colossus of Rhodes?

[majapahit]

Pontoon bridge should be a unit or building?

[dvangennip]

Would pontoons really add something to the game? I think that quickly building a dock by some of the civ-soldiers, and then having a ship shuttle troops across the water would result in the same thing. Actually, a simple but not super pretty solution would be to model a pontoon that is more or less as wide as a river. If the pontoon acts as a non-moveable ship you can move units cross by garrisoning them in the pontoon, and then ungarrison on the other side It could work as a 'specific scenario only' thing, although it is a bit dirty Otherwise the pontoon has to notify the pathfinder of being traversable, a much more difficult thing to do. Not that I am saying a pontoon should be in the game, though.

Edited by dvangennip, 08 August 2012 - 03:05 PM.

[oshron]

i think it'd be easier to either make pontoon bridge aesthetic units and a special texture to make a physical bridge that can't be destroyed, (which has already been done in the context of the game) or alternatively make one that sits on top of the water and can't be crossed by ships, eg land units can walk on it but ships can't pass it, so they have to destroy it. this would be useful for design purposes, like Caesar's invasion of Germany or Alexander's campaign at Tyre, but it's definitely superfluous when it comes to regular gameplay. perhaps it could be available to every civilization but disabled in regular gameplay, and can only be enabled through the scenario editor so that you don't have to protect an individual bridge that can't be replaced.

in the latter case, though, that opens up interesting traps: let your opponent build a pontoon bridge to your island, then use your ships and siege to destroy each end and trap their units, then you can pick them off

Edited by oshron, 10 August 2012 - 04:31 AM.

[majapahit]

Actually I really think pontoon bridge is an important part in gameplay and a nice tactical advantage.

[majapahit]

Super Weapons of the ancient worlds?

More than just catapult?

[Mythos_Ruler]

The Celtic "Wonder" perhaps?

[oshron]

yeah, Stonehenge is always a nice default. but it would only work for the Brythonic Celts, wouldn't it? what do the Gaulish Celts get?