19 replies to this topic

[Ocëaneer]

I was surprised that the Persians didn't have any camel ridden military units, are these actually unhistorical? Although, in the Age of Empires games we can see them fairly around. And one last question, will the cavalry (and specially the chariots!) be able to trample down infantry units?

[hhyloc]

The camelry was scraped for other cavalry units that fit the Persians more.
For your second question: Yes, they will eventually.

[Mythos_Ruler]

Who knows... We might throw a camel unit in, since they would make sense in a Persian campaign (they were used to good effect against the Lydians).

[Mythos_Ruler]

The closest the Persians have at this time is the Bactrian lancer, which is a proto-cataphract. The soldier is heavily armored, but the horse is not. The Seleucids, Parthians, and Sassanid Persians had the "true" cataphracts. Romans in Part 1 are "pre-Marian" from the 2nd Punic War. I only included post-Marian units as scenario extras ("Easter eggs").

[oshron]

well the romans of at least one time had a camelry force (its where the word "dromedary" comes from, iirc), so it would be nice to have at least SOME camel units, even if they aren't used as part of regular gameplay

[Veridagorin]

maybe the Persians should have camel trade units that scare horses maybe not make enemy horses run away but at least impair a cavalry charge because in some battles the Persians put there supply camels infront of there infantry to scare off enemy horses then we would have a non fighting camel that is still use full in a battle.

[hhyloc]

Good idea, IIRC in the final game the camels and elephants will be able to scare off calvary, or at least make it flinch from attacking, would be a nice bonus for the trade camels too.

[Mythos_Ruler]

A simple "stench" aura would suffice. I already simulate this with elephants by giving a significant (-50%) attack debonus to melee cavalry against elephants (i.e. the cavalry don't fight as well against elephants). I can do the same for camels.

[majapahit]

Just want to see that some types of spear units can be used to capture wild camel and turn them into camel rider unit.

[Moros]

The Persians never used camels as a military force. Camels were used as pack animals in the army, only once did they play a role on the battlefield. It was more of an original and one time idea.

The Romans did field some dromedary's recruited from their Arabian subjects, who were the only ones really using them in their military. The Nabataeans (living in modern day Jordan) for one were known for fielding them (cfr Josephos), as were the people fo Tayma/Tema (ancient trade settlement in north west Saudi Arabia) against the Assyrians.

Edited by Moros, 13 June 2012 - 01:03 AM.

[majapahit]

Camel units vs horse units, which one is stronger? which one is faster?

[Moros]

majapahit, on 13 June 2012 - 02:26 AM, said:

Camel units vs horse units, which one is stronger? which one is faster?

Horses are faster, easier to use in melee,.. Only in desert regions are they more usefull as a war mount because of them being more available, cheaper and obviously much accustomed to the lack of water, climate and terrain. Still Arabs preferred cavalry over camelry as well especially for tactical reasons, camels of course had their strategic benefits in their region though.

[majapahit]

So in this game we might see horse units are stronger than camel units but more quantity for camel units.

[Moros]

You'll have to ask that to the developers. Personally I don't think there's a faction which should be able to recruit them for historical reasons, unless as a mercenary or local or something.

[wrod]

There would probably be a special building for camels like the celts have the longhouse for fanatics which would only be able to be placed thru atlas or be found in certain maps

[Moros]

wrod, on 26 June 2012 - 09:39 PM, said:

There would probably be a special building for camels like the celts have the longhouse for fanatics which would only be able to be placed thru atlas or be found in certain maps

Would that be Persian specific? Other factions were known to recruit them regional auxiliaries or mercenaries. Not unlike most units.
The Romans formed Dromedarii units from Arabia Petraea (Nabataea) for one, I also seem to remember camels in Makedonian succesor armies. Raphia for one IIRC?

[Moros]

Lion.Kanzen, on 26 June 2012 - 10:19 PM, said:

i agree with you, i like too see Camel Riders.

Yeah but not as regular units though. Rather in the way described by wrod above, but not restricted to just the Persians.

If they would make it, I have quite a bit historical material on them lying around somewhere. Both textual and pictoral.

[Moros]

Lion.Kanzen, on 26 June 2012 - 10:42 PM, said:

Persians and Bizantine Romans.. and the Sarracen Faction.

Why limit it to specific factions anyone who had control or an alliance in the area could have recruited them.
But if limited by faction, Parthians/sassanids should have them. As should the Makedonian succesor states.

Edit: of course a possible faction like Palmyra for part 2 or Nabataea for part 1 would make them sure candidates for a unit.

Edited by Moros, 26 June 2012 - 11:35 PM.

[The Crooked Philosopher]

Parthian only use them once as camel cataphract and then they disappeared from military history, Sassanids however do not consider them as primary military machine and they prefer elephants and heavy horses. It would be better for camelry become mercenary but i agree with Moros that some possible faction should have camelry.

[Moros]

The Crooked Philosopher, on 28 June 2012 - 02:19 PM, said:

Parthian only use them once as camel cataphract and then they disappeared from military history, Sassanids however do not consider them as primary military machine and they prefer elephants and heavy horses. It would be better for camelry become mercenary but i agree with Moros that some possible faction should have camelry.

Sassanids would conquer most of Arabia as far as Eastern Oman, ancient Maka/Mazun/Magan with the centres of Mleiha and the important port of Ed-Dur. Palmyra was also known for the use of camels. Indeed the experiment of camel cathapracts was a failure, camels really don't work so well in melee either way. What I suggested was a camel archer unit, which was widely used by 'Arabic' peoples and armies, which as they're subjects both the Parthians and Sassanids did have acces too. The Diadoichi have attested use of camels as have the imperial Romans who's main source was Arabia Petraea (Nabataeans).

If camels are included it should really be as an archer force not melee. This is the most important thing to keep in mind.