29 replies to this topic

[Sukkit]

Well, they have very good reflexes, dexterity and stamina, and all that can make a difference. They would recover from wounds that would be potentially fatal for Men, but having a spearhead thrusted into their faces would most definitely bring them down

What I mean is, the way I imagine the Noldorin fëar helped in battle was by intimidating their enemies thanks to the shining of their eyes.

[Beren IV]

That makes a difference, yes, but consider the following:

A Noldo with a powerful fëa is fighting two orcs, both armed with hammers. One orc gets behind the Noldo, the other in front of him. I know that no matter how good your reflexes are, it is extremely difficult to be able to defend against multiple sides. How does the Noldo, whose fëa is equal to that of ten ordinary orcs, not get killed when the orc behind him smashes his hammer over his head?

[CrazyThumbs]

Simple, don't let the Orcs get behind you. When two armies clash, theres a general front line, with some intermingling of troops, and considering elves are structured, I'd imagine they'd be in some sort of formation, while orcs are just a rabble of troops. So the front would have less intermingling.
I imagine that it would be very hard to actually break the front line as an orc and kill someone from behind when that person is surrounded by friendly troops.

Edited by CrazyThumbs, 05 January 2007 - 07:02 PM.

[Beren IV]

But the orcs certainly can launch a hail of arrows. You can't block all of them! Also, if the orcs are that numerous, then they will simply surround you, unless you're using terrain to your advantage (but then, that's tactics - which is what I am saying that the Elves have to use). There's also the just plain trample effect: if your line is six deep, and the enemy's phalanx is sixty deep, they will simply push you down and trample you to death.

Edited by Beren IV, 06 January 2007 - 06:29 AM.

[Enarwaen]

@Beren - concerning the combat model as it will be used in the game.

we don't have anything TLA-specific programmed yet - so basically it's all still theoretical.

we can't simulate something like you said in an earlier post about target-zones (e.g. head, body, arms or legs) - that's more what current RPGs do. but we will make a difference when a unit is attacked from the front, sides and rear.
we also do differentiate between hack / pierce / crush damage (and some more exotic forms i.e. when it comes to dragons, balrogs and such). every unit gets assigned the respective damage types (according to their weaponry) and in the same time get assigned certain armour-types that do or don't protect against the different damage-types.

what we'll also do - is to portray the units on screen in various formations - all with their pros and cons.

your example of a surrounded elf-warrior against multiple orcs is just an example on how our attack-direction system will work. the orcs from the side and rear will of course have a large advantage and a high chance of taking out the lone elf rather quickly.

regarding incoming arrows - every unit will have a base-stat (depending on unit type, armour ...) that will deliver its chances of being hit by an incoming arrow. so it's basically all down to numbers

hope that helps!

[Beren IV]

So you are using random factors like chance to hit? This is very different indeed than the typical RTS that is put out nowdays. It looks like you really are looking into a deeper, more detailed, game than typical RTS games are. Praise Ilúvitar!

With regard to body parts, even with respect to a single body part, say the head, I can think of injuries that one could deliver with a spear, say, that would range anywhere from inconsequential to instantly fatal, with everything in-between. Some measure of randomness to the damage I think would be realistic - although also to be realistic, an average hit with an average weapon should be fatal to an average soldier (none of this nonsense of a unit with 100 hp causing 10 points of damage on a typical strike).


I can think of other kinds of damage besides cutting, impact, and piercing, also, by the way. Magic in warfare in Arda is a very real thing, and there are a lot of curses that can effectively kill a foe (think of the Barrow Wights), and petitioning Ainur and other spirits for weather effects (think of the storm on Caradhras, or the fumes and choaking dust of Mordor) are also effective.

[Enarwaen]

Quote

Some measure of randomness to the damage I think would be realistic - although also to be realistic, an average hit with an average weapon should be fatal to an average soldier (none of this nonsense of a unit with 100 hp causing 10 points of damage on a typical strike).

yep - thats one thing that we have planned as well.

although your mentioned 100hp/10damage example stems from a quite different approach - namely that one unit on screen actually represents a "stack" of units - meaning e.g. 10 units. this is the RTS's legacy from their ancestors -> board games.

but they way we want to represent our version of Arda would be quite a "realistic" approach - including one-hit kills although the player will get some say in this with choosing protective armour as well as defensive stances for his units.

about the "super"-natural elements of Arda - rest assured we've got that base covered. i was merely listing the "physical" damage types.
some exotic units will sport something like an Aura - which has certain effects on nearby units with all the effects that Tolkien described in his texts.
same applies to "global" or better called "external" events - that also have certain effects on your units.

[Tathar]

woah we've gone semi-off topic here havent we

[Beren IV]

Heh - yes we have!

My problem with stacked units is this: as a unit takes damage, it should be less effective. Nearly all RTS and even most TBS don't take this into account.

[Enarwaen]

Quote

My problem with stacked units is this: as a unit takes damage, it should be less effective. Nearly all RTS and even most TBS don't take this into account.

yep - that's why we want to take a different approach.