Renaissance Mod? Options

[Caesar]

How about a Renaissance modification for 0ad?

I have found that there are many games, with varying levels of historical accuracy, that cover warfare and civilization from classical times (aprox. 1000 BC to 500 AD) to the medieval (1000 AD to 1300 AD). There are also some games based on the Napoleonic and colonial eras (aprox. 1700 to 1820). However there seems to be a lack of games that focus on the Late Middle Ages and Renaissance (aprox. 1350 to 1600), even though this is the period that witnessed immense change throughout all aspects of Western civilization.

The unique style of warfare during this period offers some interesting gameplay. Armies will still be built around late medieval-style heavy infantry, yet players will also have access to primitive gunpowder units. Fortifications will still play an important part, with gunmen defending the walls alongside archers and crossbowmen against an array of powerful siege machinery and cannon. Complimenting the heavy cavalry of the middle ages will be a variety of light cavalry units, early types of lancers and hussars.

Players will be able to choose from a new selection of factions, like the Italian cities, the Holy Roman Empire, England, France, the Papal States, Spain, the Ottoman Empire, ect.

Any interest?

[Mythos_Ruler]

Problem being is: What role do gun powder units fill that archers cannot? That's why I think the Renaissance is generally skipped.

[Belisarivs]

Gunners could do something archers couldn't. Kill enemy soldiers.

Despite effectiveness of arbalests, archery started to be not very effective against newest types of armours.

In fact, it was gunpowder, which made armour redundant (except for cuirassiers, but even those wore armour significantly lighter than gothic knights). Later armies ceased to use it because it slowed them down and didn't provide protection against gunpowder shooters.

During Reneisance were guns developed quite well.

Also, it isn't just about gunpowder. Lets not forget that significant events happened during Reneisance. And army, yet differing little from those medieval in equipment, was absolutelly different in training and discipline.

Close order drill made pikemen, with guns support, backbone of the army, chivalry was in decline.

But, AFAIK there is already mod which would try to cover this period.

[Caesar]

But, AFAIK there is already mod which would try to cover this period.

Yes, but the Honor and Glory mod is still primarily medieval, so even if we did get a glimpse of the Renaissance at the end of the tech trees the gameplay and the map and even the building sets will reflect an earlier time period.

[Caesar]

Problem being is: What role do gun powder units fill that archers cannot? That's why I think the Renaissance is generally skipped.

It is true that in the Renaissance period gunmen functioned mostly as skirmishers, but, as Belisarivs pointed out, they brought about great changes in the style of European warfare. While an archer or a crossbowman would have had greater range, accuracy and less reload time, they were practically useless against heavily armoured cavalry. Firearms made this armour a weakness, and togather with a dense formation of pikemen ended the age of decisive cavalry charges. Warfare now centered around infantry tactics, heavy cavalry went into steep decline in favor of lighter lancers and hussars.

I am frankly surprised that the Renaissance is often forgotten. This was an era of great change, and great change brings about great conflict- The French Wars of Religion, the Thirty Years War, the Sack of Rome, the Ottoman-Hapsburg Wars, the War of the Roses, the Turkish-Venetian Wars, the War of Dutch Independance, the early European conquests in North and South America, and the list could go on.

This post has been edited by Caesar: Nov 22 2007, 07:07 PM

[Mythos_Ruler]

Not so sure archers were becoming obsolete against armoured men. Look at the Battle of Agincourt. Thereafter, the French thought English longbows dangerous enough to cut off the index and middle finger of any longbowman captured, giving rise to the English 'V' hand gesture for " 'F' you."

[Kimball]

I think it's funny that the game isn't out and people are already planning their mods..

[Belisarivs]

Not so sure archers were becoming obsolete against armoured men. Look at the Battle of Agincourt. Thereafter, the French thought English longbows dangerous enough to cut off the index and middle finger of any longbowman captured, giving rise to the English 'V' hand gesture for " 'F' you."

But keep in mind, that victories of English ended pretty quickly when French introduced Gunpowder.

Also development of armour from 1415 till Renaissance progressed.

Caesar, For Honour and Glory doesn't cover Renaissance period. Colonial AD does. But it is quiet here for quite a time.

This post has been edited by Belisarivs: Nov 24 2007, 01:46 PM

[Caesar]

error

This post has been edited by Caesar: Jun 7 2008, 03:32 AM

[Belisarivs]

I think AoE3 does it.

If I'm correct it dates to times between Middle ages and American revolutionary war which IMHO is Renaissance period.

[Caesar]

I think AoE3 does it.

If I'm correct it dates to times between Middle ages and American revolutionary war which IMHO is Renaissance period.

AoE3 is much more of a colonial-era game, not a renaissance game. There is a differance.

[MattSherman]

I <3 The Renaissance

[Justinian]

I'm not such a fan. Empirical Era FTW!

[Caesar]

I keep coming back to this, I know, but I do think the Renaissance has a lot to offer an rts game.

Unfortunately I am far more of a historian then I am a graphic designer. I have drawn up a couple plans for such a mod, but I do not possess the talent to do anything with them.

[Justinian]

I'd help but the offer lives on the same terms as the Honor and Glory mod: roughly 21 weeks to go.

[Caesar]

If I can find anyone else interested in this, I'll take you up on that offer.

[Abadu]

What are your ideas Caesar?

[Cassador_Chris]

Not so sure archers were becoming obsolete against armoured men.

I think Mythos is right here. Early gunpowder was hardly reliable or effective, even up to the period of the English civil war. Different sources talk about how it was easier to become skillful with a firearm than a bow/crossbow, and firearms pierced armor better, etc. These, while they probably have a tiny bit of truth to them, are largely older misconceptions that have carried on from past generations of historians. The most widely accepted reason nowadays with historians has nothing to do with any of this better than bows or easier to use stuff. It was much more likely that they were adopted in mass simply because guns were in style.

Well, if YOU were a monarch in Europe at the time, and your rival decides to shed his crossbows for a bunch of guns that scare the hell outta your men and make loud noises while their bearers marching around in new stylish uniforms holding their shiny-iron gonnes at their shoulder, wouldn't YOU want a piece of that for your army of guys holding old-fashioned and boring crossbows? Of course you would! People don't always choose the best possible option. In fact, humankind has a record of choosing the worst of possible options available.

Doesn't it feel great to know that guns came into use via the same fashion as Pokemon cards and hula-hoops? Oh yeah baby.

This post has been edited by Cassador_Chris: Sep 8 2008, 08:05 PM

[Belisarivs]

But we were discussing Renaissance period. Not middle ages.

And no, I wouldn't buy new expensive weapons if those I already have can equal them or are even better.

I'd invest into economy, training and better weapons, not nicer or hype.

Few defeats would anybody teach a lesson.

Firearms were effective, if not, why would knights decline from domination? Knights could defeat pikemen easily.

Why would all armies throw away precious armour?

No, as I said, firearms were effective and didn't come up with stylish uniforms.

It was also evolution. You had to make your units easily recognizable to prevent confusion. Soldiers finally received proper training, learned how to use formations etc. and for this were new uniforms perfectly suited.

[Apomonomenos]

Was it during the Renaissance were Poland was taken over by Germany or was that before/after?