45 replies to this topic

[Wijitmaker]

Steve... we have some improvements to make. You have done an amazing job considering you haven't taken a class on CS before, but you need some better references. Let me see what I can scrounge up for you.

[ewu_swarrington]

Wijitmaker, on Feb 23 2008, 09:29 PM, said:

...but you need some better references. Let me see what I can scrounge up for you.

I'll be happy to help find some ref's, can you specify what animations need reworked? Then I can help in the hunt.

[Wijitmaker]

Well, they all need to be reworked - except possibly the death.

Walk - the folder was empty except from some strange file extension I didn't recognize
Run - good in purpose but it overall isn't very smooth motion, the back is ridged and it looks very mechanical. I took a crude photo (camera phone) from a book I found at the bookstore.
Idle - Michael is right - this is way to much motion. Typically in an idle animation we only have subtile shifting of weight, maybe an every so slight movment of the head. If it was a horse I'd have it shift it's weight a touch, and make the tail swish back and forth. Deer are very very still when idle, so I wouldn't think you would do much of anything except maybe twitch an ear or blink. So since you can't do either, just give it an alert pose. We can randomly sequence it with other idle animations like it grazing with it's head down (start and stop with head down).
attack - pretty good, just watch out for your feet penetrating the ground, try to smooth the animaiton out and make it less jerky
death - it works for what it is, I'll be giving you a sample file that could possibly improve it a bit, but it happens so fast, and it doesn't loop... so it isn't a super critical animation.

I'm going to add a file to your folder that is some motions taken from another game (BFME). They should help you with some timing. You could pretty much copy them exactly by watching the angles between joints.

A few hints with animation:

* Once you have a good start pose, copy the pose and paste it at both ends of the animation (with key framing turned on)
* Start with animating the core of the body and move outward to the limbs. It is easier to do that than the other way around
* Less keyframes is more. Somtimes you find yourself fighting a jumpy animation and you relize it is a bad key from a few frames ago. CS has a great parabolic motion tool built into it that will smooth your animation for you. It also has good tools to create a point where the hands and feet are fixed, or they slide, or are free. Another favorite feature of CS is the copy and pasting of poses, animation, and joints - mirroring them is useful too. I'm not sure how much of this you learned in class, but it is useful. Ask Brian for some of the videos he probably already showed the other students about CS.
* The animation should play in 3dsmax at the same speed it would in real life

I honestly suck at animation... most of what I have done is copied from books, or from other game animations, or from motion capture files. The thing about animation is that when we see it we immediately compare it to real life experiences with what it should look like. Most of the time it doesn't measure up. Animal locomotion is very tricky too because we can't 'act it out' for ourselves in front of a mirror.

There has been many studies, and here is one that might help too:

Thankyou for Google!

http://books.google....id=uVbrtU0rCVsC

Click on preview of the book and you can view the entire thing. I think the deer starts on page 142.

Attached Thumbnails

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[ewu_swarrington]

I updated the Walk folder, guess I forgot to add the animations.

Thanks for the info, I'll try to work on it more tonight.

[Wijitmaker]

I uploaded a reference file for you - check it out.

[ewu_swarrington]

That reference file was a lot of help.

I updated the walking, idle and death animations.

I'll rework the Running and Attacking animations in [insert a reasonable, undetermined amount of time here]

Edited by ewu_swarrington, 26 February 2008 - 06:27 AM.

[Wijitmaker]

Excellent improvements

Here is some more feedback:

* Running - much smoother, great! The animation seems to have the deer's body pitched downward during much of the animation and I'm not sure, but I think it would help to make it more erect in this bounding. Also, when deer run in flight their tail is usually standing straight up in warning - sorta like a flag. Animate the hooves (toes, fingers - rotation) to make the legs look a little less stiff - they look sorta peg legish. Watch out for the hooves going through the ground. Frames 2, 3, 4 seem a bit off.
* Idle - you got the idea. But keep the feet fixed. I found some typical classic deer poses, try and replicate one of these: http://www.everythingwolf.com/gallery/gall...px?CategoryID=6 (Note how the head is more level)
* Walking - much improved, I added the other animation to your files for reference. The front legs look like they are a little ahead of the body in motion and seem to spread out widely. Animate the hooves (toes, fingers - rotation) to make the legs look a little less stiff - they look sorta peg legish.
* Death - it is good except the two back legs look like they are doing the exact same thing. Perhaps find a way to make their motion a bit different
* Attack - looks much better. It is a little quick between frames 14, 15, 16, try spreading that out over 2 more frames.

Note, to smooth out an animation, sometimes it helps to go into Graph Editors => Track View - Curve Editor. This is where you can look at the curves of your animation of the bones and look at the smoothness of the curves on the transform parameters. Sometimes it helps to use that to find abnormal spikes and smooth out the animation.

I think you are getting the hang of this - well done

[Wijit PDA]

I am having a terrible time with my internet so I wasn't able to commit the files.

[ewu_swarrington]

I made the requested updates. There's not much geometry's on the hooves so rotating the hooves would distort the legs. Regardless I tried to rotate enough to add some variation. I'm thinking they aren't quite there yet, and I've yet to work on the walking animation. I did however get some CS videos and will watch them this weekend.

I can use some feedback over of all of the updated animations, excluding the walking animation.

Also I was thinking of condensing the animations into one file with the models, like the reference file is composed. I don't know if this is how its preferred, but then its less files to go through.

I'm also a bit curious on how animations are imported into the game, are the bone/biped systems just imported and then re-rigged?

[Wijitmaker]

Steve, you could add some geometry to the hoof region if you would like. It would probably just be a few cuts you would have to make in poly mode. Pretty easy.

I'm out this weekend (in Ellensburg with my in-laws) so I won't be able to look at the files till Monday.

Keep the files separated because that is how they will need to be exported.

The animations are exported directly from Max. So there isn't much needed to be done after the max file is created and ready to go. They game uses a skeletal animation system, so it retains most all of the animation data. What will happen is... I will export the deer mesh once with the existing skeletal/rigging system you set that should be the same on all. Then I will export each of the animations individually. You could theoretically create animations for the deer without the skin applied at all in Max. But, it helps to have it there to see how the mesh deforms during the animation.

[ewu_swarrington]

I added geometry along the leg's

Tweaked the other animations for better hove movement, and fixed up the walking animation.

Good luck with the in-laws, and I'll talk to you on Monday.

[Wijitmaker]

I looked over the animations, great improvements

Walk - The walk still looks a bit off. It looks like it is 'trudging' through mud/snow. I would try to make the deer step more lightly/daintily. Maybe that would be making the legs not spread so far apart in animation, perhaps raising the hooves a bit more in motion. Also the back seems very flat during the animation. The animal's weight would shift based on what hooves are on the ground at what time... Should sway a bit, the back can flex a bit in motion too

Run - looks great, only thing is I would raise the tail - straight up. Like this: http://www.deer-hunting-success.com/image-...383636small.jpg It stays like that all the time.

Idle - better, the feet and hands must stay still though.

Death - good to go as is

Attack - good to go as is

Getting there

[ewu_swarrington]

Wijitmaker, on Mar 4 2008, 11:36 PM, said:

I looked over the animations...

Thanks, I updated the files. I think I might have too much back movement in the walking animation, but I'll wait for feedback about it.

[Wijitmaker]

Unfortunately I'm out of town on a business trip, so I won't be able to give you feedback till Saturday when I'm scheduled to be at the EWU campus.

[ewu_swarrington]

Fixed the odd dip in the running animation, and I used planted keys to add a bit of a rocking movement to the idle animation.

I also have the feet moving into the body while walking.

I know my project requires the animation on both a deer with antlers and a deer without, so I will update each file as needed after I get the final ok on the animation.

Sorry I didn't get out to eastern earlier then when I made it, I work out at sfcc library on Saturdays.

[Wijitmaker]

Ok, great. Use that import/export bip tool, it should speed things up for you to recreate those animations.

[ewu_swarrington]

Is that the "ok" on the animations?

If so I'll complete the files.

[Wijitmaker]

Arg.. I'm sorry I worked a 12 hour day today and didn't get home till 8. I lost my 0ad time. I will be able to review tomorrow.

What task do you have your eye on next so we can prepare it in advance?

[ewu_swarrington]

An Apple Tree? I don't really mind.

[Wijitmaker]

Alrighty, and apple tree it is.