75 replies to this topic

[Mythos_Ruler]

L, on 31 December 2011 - 07:19 AM, said:

I think the Egyptian Levy Pikeman should become citizen soldier because their levy status but with less martial prowess than the Pezhetairos in order to portray the fusion of Hellenic warrior culture with Egyptian warrior culture for a simple reason lack of manpower.

Replace the Pezhetairos for the Ptolemaic player?

[L'ethu]

I think it would good to accurately portray the historic situation faced by the Ptolemy Egypt and to show the player the result of culture fusion between the Hellenic and Egyptian culture whether it was due to desperation or culture admiration. But we could use policy decision option to allow recruitment of Pezhetairos and various Macedon unit when a Ptolemaic player decide to choose other advance policy option in order to gain certain advantage against certain enemy but with some price to pay for their action for example lower HP for native and mixed race unit and expensive Macedon unit and mercenaries or vice versa they lost the access to Hellenic unit and stronger native unit.

Edited by L'ethu, 31 December 2011 - 08:16 AM.

[Mythos_Ruler]

What if when the player chooses Ptolemaic Egypt, the Machimos becomes available as the Citizen-soldier Infantry Spearman (replacing the Pezhetairos), then the Pezhetairos becomes a Mercenary (its Food cost becomes Metal cost).

[L'ethu]

 Sounds like good idea but i believe we could give Machimos a half status as half champion unit and half citizen unit, a special advantage that no other champion unit have.  

Edited by L'ethu, 31 December 2011 - 08:25 AM.

[Mythos_Ruler]

L, on 31 December 2011 - 08:18 AM, said:

Sounds like good idea but i believe we could give Machimos a half status as a champion unit and a citizen unit, a special advantage that no other champion unit have.

Right, so they are trained with Elite stats from the get-go and don't have promotions, while gaining citizen-soldier ability to gather and build.

[L'ethu]

They could gain some promotion in order to compete against Seleucid and other successor state champion unit, a unique champion unit with cheap price and citizen army status but not to be too strong against other champion unit. As i said before they should be a unit with a special status.

Historically these unit are prone to rebellion and the Ptolemies decided to recruit foreign soldiers than using native Egyptian in large number, by giving a half status to these unit could somehow portray the nature of these unit.

But after all it is you and the team makes the decision, i am but a community enthusiast that wait to play the game after all.

Edited by L'ethu, 31 December 2011 - 09:14 AM.

[TheLyraki]

wait, i didn't read the whole text, but are you going to make a new civilisation for the Macedonians?
If yes, why? Macedonians are Hellenes, i don't see why separate them for the spartans, the Cretans etc. .....

[Cassador_Chris]

TheLyraki, on 07 January 2012 - 09:51 PM, said:

wait, i didn't read the whole text, but are you going to make a new civilisation for the Macedonians?
If yes, why? Macedonians are Hellenes, i don't see why separate them for the spartans, the Cretans etc. .....

Well, technically the Macedonians weren't Hellenes, although they were significantly influenced by Hellenic culture. That's not to say they didn't want to be considered Hellenes, though.

[SMST]

TheLyraki, on 07 January 2012 - 09:51 PM, said:

wait, i didn't read the whole text, but are you going to make a new civilisation for the Macedonians?
If yes, why? Macedonians are Hellenes, i don't see why separate them for the spartans, the Cretans etc. .....

The idea is to make the Macedonian civ represent the Hellenistic Sucessor States, with the pre-Alexandrian Hellenic (Greek) states represented by a revamped Hellenes faction.

[Pedro Falcão]

Just a note on this:

Quote

* Garrison: Cannot.<br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(250, 250, 250); ">* Function: Functions much like a warship, but on land. Is able to garrison all types of units (except cavalry) to increase attack and other attributes, including other siege units. Build limit: 1 at a time. <br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(250, 250, 250); ">* Special: May unload garrisoned units over enemy walls.

The Helepolis can or not garrison?

[feneur]

Pedro Falcão, on 01 February 2012 - 09:42 PM, said:

Just a note on this:


The Helepolis can or not garrison?

The Helepolis cannot be garrisoned in something else, but it can hold other units garrisoned within itself.

[oshron]

which makes sense; iirc, the historical helepolis was built on-site rather than being shipped there, whole or in pieces

[SMST]

It mainly makes sense because you cannot easily fit a 40 m high siege tower into any kind of fortress or building.

[Gothic]

L, on 31 December 2011 - 08:29 AM, said:

They could gain some promotion in order to compete against Seleucid and other successor state champion unit, a unique champion unit with cheap price and citizen army status but not to be too strong against other champion unit. As i said before they should be a unit with a special status.

Historically these unit are prone to rebellion and the Ptolemies decided to recruit foreign soldiers than using native Egyptian in large number, by giving a half status to these unit could somehow portray the nature of these unit.

But after all it is you and the team makes the decision, i am but a community enthusiast that wait to play the game after all.

I'm not sure if I'm educated enough to give an opinion on the Ptolemies but didn't they use Galatians and some form of Squadron(Agryspidai/Hypapist as examples) as their elite?

Quote

Replace the Pezhetairos for the Ptolemaic player?

Lol, yep. And give the Ptolemaic player more of a choice of mercenaries I guess.

Edited by Gothic, 23 March 2012 - 04:32 PM.

[L'ethu]

I found some interesting articles that suggest the Ptolemaic Kings prefer to employ kleruchies (land granters) instead of natives and some of the mercenaries mentioned that the Ptolemaic Kings are the best paymaster in the known world. So i think the team should do more research on the Ptolemaic military structure.

[Moros]

the machimoi would replace the pezhetairoi how? Klereuchoi would be better to replace them as medium phalangitai, while a machimoi version would be a lighter and less reliable version of the same unit. A heavy thyreophoroi unit would be a good elite unit here as well. Note the machimoi shouldn't be an elite unit at all and can also be represented in a more traditional light spear unit as well. Both options work. A unique elite could be Galatian (celts from central Turkey) mercenaries, who were given their own seperate communities to live in and were highly prized on the battlefield for heavy infantry.

A levy phalangitai, a medium land owner phalangitai and agyraspidai (yeah silver instead of bronze shields) would be ideal for the Seleukids. Though they don't need to come in a phalangitai version only.

Makedonians obviously could have some Thracians (phalxes) as uniques, the agrianians are perfect for light skirmishers as they are (just noticed them), but a heavy skirmisher could possibly be added as well.

Other agema and royal units would be the obvious hetairoi and hypaspistai. Though the latter should perhaps not be avaible to the Ptolemaics.

Edit:
Cleopatra VII on a chariot? Isn't that a very heavy anachronistic? Also weird pick for hero, but okay.

Edited by Moros, 27 June 2012 - 12:35 AM.

[Mythos_Ruler]

Well, it looks like if the Ptolemies and Seleucids were added to the game, they would be standalone factions, rather than a sub-faction of the Macedonians. So, there would be more room for more accurate unit rosters.

[oshron]

btw, if you haven't decided on one yet (and decide to include such buildings), i'd like to recommend the Library of Alexandria as the unique Macedonian Wonder

[Thorfinn the Shallow Minded]

Why not the Lighthouse of Pharos?

[oshron]

personally, i think the Library is more representative:

• because it was the greatest store of knowledge in the Ancient World
  
• it's more awe-inspiring than a lighthouse (it may have been huge, but thats really all that the Pharos Lighthouse definitively was)
  
• it's named after the most famous Macedonian in history (technically, it's for the city named after Alexander, but same difference )
  
• in the context of the game and random maps, you could reason that "Alexandria" is anywhere and not necessarily in Egypt, thus whatever city you build the Library in can be considered "Alexandria"
  
• while it's not one of the Wonders of the Ancient World, it's more evocative of the Ancient World than the Lighthouse is (it would largely be important that alot of the actual Wonders of the World not be included because alot of them either don't fall into the timeframe of 0 AD or the civilizations which built them are not playable, like the Egyptians or Babylonians)