49 replies to this topic

[Mythos_Ruler]

I think we should aim for an average game length that doesn't include deforesting the entire map. There is also trading and bartering for the late game econ.

[feneur]

Mythos_Ruler, on 04 December 2011 - 02:50 AM, said:

I think we should aim for an average game length that doesn't include deforesting the entire map. There is also trading and bartering for the late game econ.

Yeah, and I remember when playing AoK that even if I had deforested the entire map etc, I rarely used even close to all those resources (as you may guess I enjoy playing defensively And basically wait until the AI was already defeated before attacking =) ). It might be fun for some people/in some cases if there is a gameplay mode with renewable resources, so I'm not against it completely, but I don't think it should be the default.

[Mythos_Ruler]

IMHO, if you've deforested the entire map and still haven't won, then you should suffer the consequences of poor planning and resource management.

[iap]

Funny, the same discussion with similar conclusion is in Warzone2100 forums.

My opinion is that there should be renewable resources, at least when it comes to wood (because iron and stone is irrelevant). trees that will grow randomly over time will add to the game atmosphere and enrich it. However, if programming it is complicated, it's not that important to implement.

[Centurion]

I don't think it makes sense to have renewable resources if the game doesn't last long or cover that great of a time period per match
but an idea fo rit anyway: What if herds of deer just randomly come out of the fog in a big forest, onto grassy fields.
and i don't think lettuce counts as food that would really make a meal

Edited by Centurion, 07 December 2011 - 09:27 AM.

[oshron]

i think the only resource that should be readily renewable should be forage patches: berry bushes and such

[samgj]

Real Time Stratagy games are about working with what resources are available, renewable resources would alow players to sit around and would limit action and the need for players to stratagise about how to improve their current situation.

[bill2505]

samgj, on 17 December 2011 - 01:38 AM, said:

Real Time Stratagy games are about working with what resources are available, renewable resources would alow players to sit around and would limit action and the need for players to stratagise about how to improve their current situation.

no i dont agree with this. and in the end if you dont like the idea play faster .no one forces you to play slowly

[ribez]

i think that renewable resources are useless, since alpha 8 has introduced a bartering system

[Mythos_Ruler]

One of the main aspects of the game will be to compete over dwindling resources. Markets and Traders circumvent this, but can also be raided and attacked, adding another interesting tactical and strategic aspect. Trees and Metal Mines popping up randomly? Notsogood.

[Corbo]

Have you considered units planting trees ? With a food cost and a long wait before reward.

[Spahbod]

We definitely need some infinite mines and trees in campaigns or some special scenarios. But I'm not in favor of implementing them in normal games. We have some ways (Although a little hard) to continue the game even after all of the resources on the map are depleted (Bartering/Trading).

[Mythos_Ruler]

Yeah, I could definitely see some "Infinite" mines being added to the scenario editor for specific custom situations.

As far as regular games go, the only thing I'd want to see be "infinite" are Farms* and animals garrisoned in the Corral.

Specifically farms:

Do not limit the number of gatherers, but include a "diminishing returns" aspect to where anything over 3 gatherers on a farm would be less efficient than just planting another farm.

*My opinion has evolved over the months to see the utility in infinite farms.

[Tutle]

If you folks don't mind, I would like to give my input on this semi-old topic.

As much as I would like to deprive the enemy A,I from even harvesting renewable resources, it certainly would make the game a bit too long even for me (5 days playing same match thanks to save). The thing I think that should be implemented is resource stealing though.

Basically, if I destroyed an enemy building I should get at least half the resources that were used to build it.
It annoys me sometimes to spend resources on heavy units, only to find out it was an abandoned enemy base (*facepalm* if they started a heavy assault on your base while you were away).
I think there should be some kind of benefit for this type of situation described above.

Summary: It encourages players to take better care of their spent resources, and to attack more often as well. In other words, a balance of defense and offense.

Edited by Tutle, 05 January 2012 - 05:29 PM.

[Mythos_Ruler]

Tutle, on 05 January 2012 - 07:16 AM, said:

If you folks don't mind, I would like to give my input on this semi-old topic.

As much as I would like to deprive the enemy A,I from even harvesting renewable resources, it certainly would make the game a bit too long even for me (5 days playing same match thanks to save). The thing I think that should be implemented is resource stealing though.

Basically, if I destroyed an enemy building I should get at least half the resources that were used to build it.
It annoys me sometimes to spend resources on heavy units, only to find out it was an abandoned enemy base (*facepalm* if they started a heavy assault on your base while you were away).
I think there should be some kind of benefit for this type of situation described above.

Summary: It encourages players to take better care of their resources, and to attack more often as well. In other words, a balance of defense and offense.

We have a working "Loot" attribute for this already. We just need a way of displaying this to the player when they get the loot. Right now it's difficult to notice.

[feneur]

Mythos_Ruler, on 05 January 2012 - 07:17 AM, said:

We have a working "Loot" attribute for this already. We just need a way of displaying this to the player when they get the loot. Right now it's difficult to notice.

It's not technically resource stealing though as the resources doesn't get removed from the enemy. At least not in the direct sense, they did after all spend resources when training the units/constructing the buildings

[Mythos_Ruler]

feneur, on 06 January 2012 - 06:57 PM, said:

It's not technically resource stealing though as the resources doesn't get removed from the enemy. At least not in the direct sense, they did after all spend resources when training the units/constructing the buildings

It sounds like he just means you get some of the resources used to create the unit. We already have this in the <Loot> element, it's just not obvious when it happens in-game. He's not talking about resources the unit is carrying, although that would be a good feature too.

[dinosoep]

I don't really like infinite resources. In aoe3 you have those games where the enemy makes 4 walls, creates 2 forts and relies on his wood income (the only non-infinite resource through his 2 shipped factorys). Those games are definetly not my cup of tea and can take up to over 3 hours. he simply creates a lot of cannons and puts some ranged units behind his walls only to see your units beeing crushed on his defence.
He has no reason whatsoever to attack you and keeps working on his economy.

There should be a reason to expand and to come out your own little base. These games are much more interesting as one has to balance military and economy.

[Benjamin385]

Here is just my 2 cents on this - I am all for renewable resources in a limited extent.

I have played allot of Rise of Nations and Age of Empires back in my day. I always felt that these games could be improved upon.

So here I go -

Forests can grow back with given time using a custom brush volume.
Within that brush volume any tree objects can "re spawn" after a certain amount of time.

However just trees that are being harvested cannot re spawn untill they are completely harvested.

This would be great for large forest areas that have been deforested and watching them grow back slowly.

[FeXoR]

I don't think anything I read hits the point.

If you really feel like needing regrowing resources, it could (AFAIK there is no possibility yet but it's really REALLY needed to make awesome scenarios) be implemented map by map (or in future libraries) by enabling triggers and functions during game time.


I really think if that would be possible, users will start to build maps with regrowing resources (I surely would)!

So... implement "easy" to use (as the random map generator scripts) "script during game time" functionality.

I don't think that 0ad will ever have (or need) the huge implementation of in-game triggers in the map editor like in Warcraft III and a full support of adding scripts in JASS (similar to 0ad random map generator functionality)

But... EXACTLY THIS led to a huge community, a vast variety of maps feeling like totally different games and a long lasting popularity!

And I don't think anyone inside Wildfire Games or the community around 0ad would say that is a bad thing

In-game triggers are important!

Can't say it to often and in to many different font-types

Edited by FeXoR, 01 March 2012 - 02:42 PM.