Light Style© by Fisana

Jump to content


Photo

Iberian Navy


  • Please log in to reply
80 replies to this topic

#21 Thorfinn the Shallow Minded

Thorfinn the Shallow Minded

    Triplicarius

  • Community Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 477 posts

Posted 21 February 2012 - 11:37 AM

Perhaps you could buy ships from civilizations
  • 0
To win, we must endeavour to be the stronger of the two at the point of impact. Our only hope of this lies in making our own choice of operations, not in waiting passively for whatever the enemy chooses for us."—Schlieffen

#22 L'ethu

L'ethu

    Discens

  • Community Members
  • Pip
  • 85 posts

Posted 21 February 2012 - 12:19 PM

Perhaps you could buy ships from civilizations

Hiring mercenary war vessels? Sounds logical to me, but will they accept this proposal? No, i don't think so.



  • 0

#23 hhyloc

hhyloc

    Duplicarius

  • Community Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 244 posts

Posted 21 February 2012 - 02:40 PM

Hiring mercenary war vessels? Sounds logical to me, but will they accept this proposal? No, i don't think so.

Whoa don't be so negative, I'm pretty sure that there are nothing wrong with hiring mercenary naval ships as long as gameplay goes, and a good proposal has a high chance to be accepted so don't abandon your hope :)
  • 0

#24 oshron

oshron

    Centurio

  • Community Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 929 posts

Posted 21 February 2012 - 04:00 PM

They wouldn't get into a naval conflict. :)

say, do ships count towards the "total annihilation" victory objective (yknow, the standard RTS objective where you just completely wipe out your enemy)? because it occurs to me that, if the iberians cant build any warvessels, then in a pitched battle between them and, say, someone playing as teh hellenes, if the hellenes are utterly beaten, couldnt they conceivably just troll the iberian player after theyre otherwise utterly defeated by sending their remaining ships out into waters where the iberians cant get them? i mean, unless its got some citizen-soldiers on it, there's no way that the ships by themselves would be able to win anyway
  • 0
Hey! Check out the plans for my mythology mod on my site! Post input and comments in the discussion thread!

#25 SDM

SDM

    Discens

  • Donator
  • 79 posts

Posted 21 February 2012 - 04:11 PM

It's obvious that the Iberians aren't meant to be played in a 1v1 multiplayer scenario in water-based maps, and doing so is suicide. I'm just glad that the team isn't making this game into a Rock-Paper-Scissor game by "balancing" everything. However, the "Total Annihilation" feature might need to be tweaked with Iberians just to prevent abuse and stalls (i.e. Hellenes destroy Iberian ally, and Iberian destroy all of Hellenes except fleet. Fleet runs away, destroy Iberian naval base, and continuously harrass shipbuilders, or they just stab one citizen in a transport and rebuild their civilization.)
  • 0

#26 oshron

oshron

    Centurio

  • Community Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 929 posts

Posted 21 February 2012 - 09:14 PM

exactly. my question/suggestion is that ships by themselves shouldnt count as "survivors"; i mean, in Empire Earth, for instance, a total conquest victory is given if your opponent doesnt have any building THAT THEY CAN STILL USE. a house, for instance, doesnt count because it has no military functions, whereas a barracks can still conceivably produce units which (unlikely as it is) could destroy your entire civilization by themselves. a friend of mine had a situation like this in a round of Command & Conquer where his three enemies (CPs, i would imagine) all nuked him at the same time, but some of his army survived and he was able to capture some of his enemies' buildings and beat them anyway

in short, as long as the player still has units which can rebuild his civilization, then the game should continue, but since ships cant do that (right?), they shouldnt count towards "total annihilation" victory requirements

Edited by oshron, 21 February 2012 - 09:14 PM.

  • 0
Hey! Check out the plans for my mythology mod on my site! Post input and comments in the discussion thread!

#27 Mythos_Ruler

Mythos_Ruler

    Senator

  • WFG Retired
  • 14,965 posts

Posted 21 February 2012 - 09:20 PM

Why shouldn't ships be counted? I'm not following. You realize your reasoning could apply to heroes and champion units and siege units? :) So, even if I have 50 ships, a Hero, and 20 Champion units, I should lose the game if my opponent has managed to destroy my buildings and still has 1 citizen-soldier left? :)

The conceptual problem everyone is having with this is that the Iberians would be screwed if the enemy took over the sea. You have to realize, on an island map, no matter what faction you are, you are screwed if the enemy takes control of the sea. Naval superiority is just not possible for the Iberians, so you just wouldn't choose them in a 1v1 islands match up... unless you developed some kind of amphibious assault strategy. :) I really don't think the Huns in Part II are going to have a a good time on island maps either, and neither should they. Same for Iberians in Part 1. :)

Although... I may be open to giving them the Celtic warship. I don't feel a particular need to do that though. I'm certainly okay with some factions having stark weaknesses in some areas, making them underdogs on certain maps or under certain conditions. Part of the fun could be learning how to overcome these weaknesses and achieve victory despite them. :D
  • 0

#28 quantumstate

quantumstate

    Primus Pilus

  • WFG Retired
  • 1,150 posts

Posted 21 February 2012 - 09:26 PM

Why shouldn't ships be counted? I'm not following. You realize your reasoning could apply to heroes and champion units and siege units? :) So, even if I have 50 ships, a Hero, and 20 Champion units, I should lose the game if my opponent has managed to destroy my buildings and still has 1 citizen-soldier left? :)

The conceptual problem everyone is having with this is that the Iberians would be screwed if the enemy took over the sea. You have to realize, on an island map, no matter what faction you are, you are screwed if the enemy takes control of the sea. Naval superiority is just not possible for the Iberians, so you just wouldn't choose them in a 1v1 islands match up... unless you developed some kind of amphibious assault strategy. :) I really don't think the Huns in Part II are going to have a a good time on island maps either, and neither should they. Same for Iberians in Part 1. :)


This is reasonable but this should be made very clear, probably with a warning popping up if you pick then on a naval map. Also playing with random civs is pretty common so the random civ selector would also need to be aware of this.
  • 0

Jonathan Waller [ aka quantumstate ]

Wildfire Games Programmer
Contact me: jonathanmarkwaller at gmail dot com


Support Wildfire Games!


#29 Pureon

Pureon

    Primus Pilus

  • 0 A.D. Art Team
  • 3,584 posts

Posted 21 February 2012 - 09:27 PM

Why shouldn't ships be counted? I'm not following.


The enemy builds 1 warship and moves it far out to sea. The Iberian player can't win because it can't destroy the warship, even if it has total land control.
  • 0

Pureon
0 A.D. Part time Designer / Texturer / 3D Artist
Contact email:
pureon{@}wildfiregames.com


#30 Mythos_Ruler

Mythos_Ruler

    Senator

  • WFG Retired
  • 14,965 posts

Posted 21 February 2012 - 09:32 PM

The enemy builds 1 warship and moves it far out to sea. The Iberian player can't win because it can't destroy the warship, even if it has total land control.


Hmm... Then let's think of something other than giving them a warship. Perhaps some kind of fire ship? A ship that's on fire (slowly loses health) that damages enemy ships it encounters.

I just can't see exempting ships from ConquestCritical. They are units with an attack who can affect the outcome of the game. If they were essentially "dead" objects that had to be occupied by other units in order to function (like the original idea from 2003), then yeah. But as they are now, I can't see exempting them just to make island maps winnable for the Iberians.

Interesting discussion.
  • 0

#31 Pureon

Pureon

    Primus Pilus

  • 0 A.D. Art Team
  • 3,584 posts

Posted 21 February 2012 - 09:38 PM

Lets give the fishing boat and merchant ship garrison attack bonuses - You could fit 4 archers onto the Iberian fishing boat - even make the boat slightly bigger.
  • 0

Pureon
0 A.D. Part time Designer / Texturer / 3D Artist
Contact email:
pureon{@}wildfiregames.com


#32 Mythos_Ruler

Mythos_Ruler

    Senator

  • WFG Retired
  • 14,965 posts

Posted 21 February 2012 - 09:44 PM

Lets give the fishing boat and merchant ship garrison attack bonuses - You could fit 4 archers onto the Iberian fishing boat - even make the boat slightly bigger.


Not as sexy as a fire ship.
  • 0

#33 Pureon

Pureon

    Primus Pilus

  • 0 A.D. Art Team
  • 3,584 posts

Posted 21 February 2012 - 10:05 PM

Not as sexy as a fire ship.

I agree with that
  • 0

Pureon
0 A.D. Part time Designer / Texturer / 3D Artist
Contact email:
pureon{@}wildfiregames.com


#34 Mythos_Ruler

Mythos_Ruler

    Senator

  • WFG Retired
  • 14,965 posts

Posted 21 February 2012 - 10:08 PM

I agree with that


Once we have the trample damage aura feature, we could just do it with a trample aura.
  • 0

#35 Pureon

Pureon

    Primus Pilus

  • 0 A.D. Art Team
  • 3,584 posts

Posted 21 February 2012 - 11:39 PM

Once we have the trample damage aura feature, we could just do it with a trample aura.


I can picture it now

Posted Image
  • 0

Pureon
0 A.D. Part time Designer / Texturer / 3D Artist
Contact email:
pureon{@}wildfiregames.com


#36 Mythos_Ruler

Mythos_Ruler

    Senator

  • WFG Retired
  • 14,965 posts

Posted 22 February 2012 - 01:51 AM

I can picture it now

Posted Image


Posted Image
  • 0

#37 Cassador_Chris

Cassador_Chris

    Duplicarius

  • Community Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 224 posts

Posted 22 February 2012 - 03:13 AM

Do we have any historical records of what the Iberians did with regards to navel vessels?

Also, I think its time that we all put our heads together and come up with a awesome Iberian amphibious assault strategy.
  • 0
"Allies in Shogun 2 are among the most traitorous that I have ever seen. Do not trust them, but declare war on them at the first opportunity." - Sun Tzu

#38 hhyloc

hhyloc

    Duplicarius

  • Community Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 244 posts

Posted 22 February 2012 - 03:56 AM

Not as sexy as a fire ship.

The Vandals also used galleys filled with brushwood and oil to destroy half of a Roman fleet anchored off Cape Bon during the Roman expedition in 469 AD. :)
So this is historically accurate... at least for the Vandals. I'm don't know if Iberians did use burning ships though. :huh:

Source: http://www.roman-emp...rticle-016.html

Edited by hhyloc, 22 February 2012 - 04:15 AM.

  • 0

#39 L'ethu

L'ethu

    Discens

  • Community Members
  • Pip
  • 85 posts

Posted 22 February 2012 - 04:13 AM

Perhaps these books could provide some information needed for us to understand the Iberian maritime activity:

1. Re-evaluating Iron Age maritime societies: the North West Iberian Peninsula by Rodrigo Pacheco Ruiz

2. Colonial Encounters in Ancient Iberia: Phoenician, Greek, and Indigenous Relations by Michael Dietler and Carolina Lopez-Ruiz


  • 0

#40 wraitii

wraitii

    Primus Pilus

  • WFG Programming Team
  • 1,654 posts

Posted 22 February 2012 - 06:07 AM

This is reasonable but this should be made very clear, probably with a warning popping up if you pick them on a naval map. Also playing with random civs is pretty common so the random civ selector would also need to be aware of this.

This. This this this. It's okay if they don't have a warship, as long as they're slightly stronger on land... But then you absolutely need to make a "random for sea maps" options.
  • 0
Lancelot de Ferrière le Vayer [ aka Wraitii ]
Wildfire Games Programmer, AI developer, auxiliary map designer, dealing with anything water.
Contact me: wraitii@wildfiregames.com

Also the world's only three-dimensional poodle.