Light Style© by Fisana

Jump to content


Photo

Camel units


  • Please log in to reply
19 replies to this topic

#1 OcŽaneer

OcŽaneer

    Tiro

  • Community Newbie
  • 2 posts

Posted 24 March 2012 - 12:31 AM

I was surprised that the Persians didn't have any camel ridden military units, are these actually unhistorical? Although, in the Age of Empires games we can see them fairly around. And one last question, will the cavalry (and specially the chariots!) be able to trample down infantry units?
  • 0

#2 hhyloc

hhyloc

    Duplicarius

  • Community Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 244 posts

Posted 24 March 2012 - 02:00 AM

The camelry was scraped for other cavalry units that fit the Persians more.
For your second question: Yes, they will eventually. ;)
  • 0

#3 Mythos_Ruler

Mythos_Ruler

    Senator

  • WFG Retired
  • 14,965 posts

Posted 24 March 2012 - 03:05 AM

Who knows... We might throw a camel unit in, since they would make sense in a Persian campaign (they were used to good effect against the Lydians).
  • 0

#4 Mythos_Ruler

Mythos_Ruler

    Senator

  • WFG Retired
  • 14,965 posts

Posted 24 March 2012 - 05:17 AM

The closest the Persians have at this time is the Bactrian lancer, which is a proto-cataphract. The soldier is heavily armored, but the horse is not. The Seleucids, Parthians, and Sassanid Persians had the "true" cataphracts. Romans in Part 1 are "pre-Marian" from the 2nd Punic War. I only included post-Marian units as scenario extras ("Easter eggs").
  • 0

#5 oshron

oshron

    Centurio

  • Community Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 928 posts

Posted 24 March 2012 - 10:28 PM

well the romans of at least one time had a camelry force (its where the word "dromedary" comes from, iirc), so it would be nice to have at least SOME camel units, even if they aren't used as part of regular gameplay
  • 0
Hey! Check out the plans for my mythology mod on my site! Post input and comments in the discussion thread!

#6 Veridagorin

Veridagorin

    Discens

  • Community Members
  • Pip
  • 77 posts

Posted 11 April 2012 - 03:45 PM

maybe the Persians should have camel trade units that scare horses maybe not make enemy horses run away but at least impair a cavalry charge because in some battles the Persians put there supply camels infront of there infantry to scare off enemy horses then we would have a non fighting camel that is still use full in a battle.
  • 0

KKiVRoD.png?1

Check out my Fantasy Mod here http://www.wildfireg...showtopic=18492

 

 

post-15819-0-63727000-1394896676.png


#7 hhyloc

hhyloc

    Duplicarius

  • Community Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 244 posts

Posted 12 April 2012 - 07:19 AM

Good idea, IIRC in the final game the camels and elephants will be able to scare off calvary, or at least make it flinch from attacking, would be a nice bonus for the trade camels too.
  • 0

#8 Mythos_Ruler

Mythos_Ruler

    Senator

  • WFG Retired
  • 14,965 posts

Posted 12 April 2012 - 07:37 AM

A simple "stench" aura would suffice. I already simulate this with elephants by giving a significant (-50%) attack debonus to melee cavalry against elephants (i.e. the cavalry don't fight as well against elephants). I can do the same for camels.
  • 0

#9 majapahit

majapahit

    Sesquiplicarius

  • Community Members
  • PipPip
  • 157 posts

Posted 17 April 2012 - 12:08 AM

Just want to see that some types of spear units can be used to capture wild camel and turn them into camel rider unit.
  • 0
----------
Fried Banana, Steamed Banana, Banana Kolak, Nagasari, Banana Ceriping, and still many more delicious banana based cuisine.

#10 Moros

Moros

    Discens

  • Community Members
  • Pip
  • 24 posts

Posted 13 June 2012 - 01:03 AM

The Persians never used camels as a military force. Camels were used as pack animals in the army, only once did they play a role on the battlefield. It was more of an original and one time idea.

The Romans did field some dromedary's recruited from their Arabian subjects, who were the only ones really using them in their military. The Nabataeans (living in modern day Jordan) for one were known for fielding them (cfr Josephos), as were the people fo Tayma/Tema (ancient trade settlement in north west Saudi Arabia) against the Assyrians.

Edited by Moros, 13 June 2012 - 01:03 AM.

  • 0

#11 majapahit

majapahit

    Sesquiplicarius

  • Community Members
  • PipPip
  • 157 posts

Posted 13 June 2012 - 02:26 AM

Camel units vs horse units, which one is stronger? which one is faster?
  • 0
----------
Fried Banana, Steamed Banana, Banana Kolak, Nagasari, Banana Ceriping, and still many more delicious banana based cuisine.

#12 Moros

Moros

    Discens

  • Community Members
  • Pip
  • 24 posts

Posted 13 June 2012 - 04:33 PM

Camel units vs horse units, which one is stronger? which one is faster?

Horses are faster, easier to use in melee,.. Only in desert regions are they more usefull as a war mount because of them being more available, cheaper and obviously much accustomed to the lack of water, climate and terrain. Still Arabs preferred cavalry over camelry as well especially for tactical reasons, camels of course had their strategic benefits in their region though.
  • 1

#13 majapahit

majapahit

    Sesquiplicarius

  • Community Members
  • PipPip
  • 157 posts

Posted 15 June 2012 - 08:30 AM

So in this game we might see horse units are stronger than camel units but more quantity for camel units. :sword_rune:
  • 0
----------
Fried Banana, Steamed Banana, Banana Kolak, Nagasari, Banana Ceriping, and still many more delicious banana based cuisine.

#14 Moros

Moros

    Discens

  • Community Members
  • Pip
  • 24 posts

Posted 15 June 2012 - 08:25 PM

You'll have to ask that to the developers. Personally I don't think there's a faction which should be able to recruit them for historical reasons, unless as a mercenary or local or something.
  • 0

#15 wrod

wrod

    Discens

  • Community Members
  • Pip
  • 86 posts

Posted 26 June 2012 - 09:39 PM

There would probably be a special building for camels like the celts have the longhouse for fanatics which would only be able to be placed thru atlas or be found in certain maps
  • 0

#16 Moros

Moros

    Discens

  • Community Members
  • Pip
  • 24 posts

Posted 26 June 2012 - 10:15 PM

There would probably be a special building for camels like the celts have the longhouse for fanatics which would only be able to be placed thru atlas or be found in certain maps

Would that be Persian specific? Other factions were known to recruit them regional auxiliaries or mercenaries. Not unlike most units.
The Romans formed Dromedarii units from Arabia Petraea (Nabataea) for one, I also seem to remember camels in Makedonian succesor armies. Raphia for one IIRC?
  • 0

#17 Moros

Moros

    Discens

  • Community Members
  • Pip
  • 24 posts

Posted 26 June 2012 - 10:34 PM

i agree with you, i like too see Camel Riders.

Yeah but not as regular units though. Rather in the way described by wrod above, but not restricted to just the Persians.

If they would make it, I have quite a bit historical material on them lying around somewhere. Both textual and pictoral. :)
  • 0

#18 Moros

Moros

    Discens

  • Community Members
  • Pip
  • 24 posts

Posted 26 June 2012 - 10:52 PM

Persians and Bizantine Romans.. and the Sarracen Faction.

Why limit it to specific factions anyone who had control or an alliance in the area could have recruited them.
But if limited by faction, Parthians/sassanids should have them. As should the Makedonian succesor states.

Edit: of course a possible faction like Palmyra for part 2 or Nabataea for part 1 would make them sure candidates for a unit.

Edited by Moros, 26 June 2012 - 11:35 PM.

  • 0

#19 The Crooked Philosopher

The Crooked Philosopher

    Sesquiplicarius

  • Community Members
  • PipPip
  • 110 posts

Posted 28 June 2012 - 02:19 PM

Parthian only use them once as camel cataphract and then they disappeared from military history, Sassanids however do not consider them as primary military machine and they prefer elephants and heavy horses. It would be better for camelry become mercenary but i agree with Moros that some possible faction should have camelry.
  • 0

#20 Moros

Moros

    Discens

  • Community Members
  • Pip
  • 24 posts

Posted 29 June 2012 - 03:35 PM

Parthian only use them once as camel cataphract and then they disappeared from military history, Sassanids however do not consider them as primary military machine and they prefer elephants and heavy horses. It would be better for camelry become mercenary but i agree with Moros that some possible faction should have camelry.


Sassanids would conquer most of Arabia as far as Eastern Oman, ancient Maka/Mazun/Magan with the centres of Mleiha and the important port of Ed-Dur. Palmyra was also known for the use of camels. Indeed the experiment of camel cathapracts was a failure, camels really don't work so well in melee either way. What I suggested was a camel archer unit, which was widely used by 'Arabic' peoples and armies, which as they're subjects both the Parthians and Sassanids did have acces too. The Diadoichi have attested use of camels as have the imperial Romans who's main source was Arabia Petraea (Nabataeans).

If camels are included it should really be as an archer force not melee. This is the most important thing to keep in mind.
  • 0