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#61 MishFTW

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 01:10 AM

I've committed the wall patch in revision 11760. Feel free to playtest it and report any bugs you may find :)

Thanks dude :D
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#62 Mythos_Ruler

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 01:32 AM

why palisade costs stone? costs 30 stone and 30 wood



where are gates into palisade?
why are hard to close


I've rebalanced wall and palisade costs. Update and try them out.

Gates will come in Alpha 11 or 12. For now, you just have to be creative with your "entryways", like this....

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#63 vts

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 01:49 AM

You can also make a makeshift gate by deleting a wall segment B)
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#64 Mythos_Ruler

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 02:13 AM

You can also make a makeshift gate by deleting a wall segment B)


Yep, that's basically what I did. (y)
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#65 madmax

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 06:22 AM

WOW!!...I just tried the wall feature !! :)

What can I say...you guys just continue to do awesome work everyday !
Knowing a bit about the history of this game and your efforts at least since 2006, to get this long awaited feature in the game finally, its most inspiring.

I just know there are some great things to come !

The only reason I ever began following 0AD was because it was impossible to modify the original AOK Genie engine and to have more complex strategies. Well I guess now that
we have proper walls, its time to start off with scripting :)

Awesome stuff !!

Edited by madmax, 06 May 2012 - 06:23 AM.

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#66 madmax

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 08:02 AM

Yes I won my first game today. Didnt need the walls much finally, apparently a big army was enough. But qbot almost had me, expanding right up to my doorstep and squeezing me into a small patch. I thought it gave up too soon. Apparently it ran out of food ! Was getting these yellow lines near the top left saying "No food resource found !!" . But I ran out too. Then I made fields!!

Doesnt qbot know about fields ?

By the way, the lag issue wasnt really an issue this time. I was playing Arcadia with 1 qbot. The game lagged only once and I knew that was when qbot was about to attack me !!

AOK used to have an alert whenever an unit got attacked. Is it possible in 0 AD?

Edited by madmax, 06 May 2012 - 08:15 AM.

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#67 Patricius

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 12:48 PM

Right, we hope to alter the basic unit AI so that soldiers will not attack walls. You'll need siege weapons for that. Right now to kind of encourage this behavior I made walls bloody difficult to kill with swords and arrows, so you wouldn't want to attack them with your soldiers even though you can.


Historically soldiers could sometimes attack walls, say Norse warriors with their heavy axes could hack at a cheaply made rubble course stone wall.
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#68 feneur

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 05:43 PM

Historically soldiers could sometimes attack walls, say Norse warriors with their heavy axes could hack at a cheaply made rubble course stone wall.

Hmm, I would be very surprised if they would dull their axes by hacking away at a stone wall. Either way, for gameplay reasons it's better to separate unit roles a bit, so you have to use all kinds of units to properly defeat your enemy. Not giving ordinary soldiers the ability to attack walls should also make walls more worth building, since the enemy will have to use siege weapons to take them down. And siege weapons are both more expensive and slower, so the walls will actually make some difference since the enemy can't just throw a bunch of ordinary units against them :)

AOK used to have an alert whenever an unit got attacked. Is it possible in 0 AD?

We do intend to include such a feature yeah, it is not included yet though.
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#69 feneur

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 07:30 PM

Testing a bit, and as far as I can tell I can only build one stretch of wall at a time (at least with palisades), i.e. to make the wall go in another angle I need to start anew, or am I missing something? (I am using the autobuilt exe and revision 11775 if that makes any difference) Shouldn't you be able to build walls going in new directions? I seem to recall seeing something like that in the videos as well, but I could be wrong, or am just not doing it the right way =) The way I'd imagine things should work would be Left click to place first wall tower, drag to determine length of straight wall segment, left click to end straight segment, continue to do the same or right-click to cancel the construction. That's based on how I remember other games doing it though :)
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#70 leper

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 07:43 PM

Press shift to keep building.
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#71 feneur

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 08:17 PM

Press shift to keep building.

Ah, doh :P That makes some sense, so I wonder why I didn't think of it. I guess it is because walls, or at least one "wall building session", feels like one building to me and I associate shift with constructing multiple buildings. I'll have to test it to see what it truly feels like, but at least conceptually it does sounds a bit cumbersome to have to press the shift key. That will have to be tomorrow though, don't have time tonight.
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#72 fabio

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 11:57 AM

Good to see the new wall system :worship:

Some suggestions (I quickly tried only the palisade):
  • 100% agree to remove the SHIFT key for continuing walls. With the left/right click it requires no instructions and everyone can find it;
  • FIXED in alpha 10 I noticed that foundations are larger than the actual wall (continuing over the limiting towers);
  • I like the "snap" to connect a wall to another with a tower. However, also due to previous issue, I was able to create a wall with two tower very near one to the other. Interestingly, the space between them was to low to let units pass through, but, funnily, my units and enemy units could fight in between :P ! Maybe it just would better to use a higher "snap" distance to avoid these "holes";
  • it would be nice to have an indicator somewhat that let you know if the wall are "connected" (either with walls only or also with mountains).

Edited by fabio, 11 May 2012 - 02:17 PM.

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#73 plumo

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 12:58 PM

The wall system is neat :)

Just one minor, trivial thing: change the foundation of palissades (now there are a lot of stone bricks) to only contain wood elements.
I almost feel bad writing this down :P , so trivial
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#74 WhiteTreePaladin

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 02:18 PM

100% agree to remove the SHIFT key for continuing walls. With the left/right click it requires no instructions and everyone can find it


Why remove Shift click? There are a lot of hot keys for adanced players, no need to remove them just because new players are not aware of them.

Also, not sure how right click is involved with Shift click. Right click just cancels the command.

So, I don't really understand. :)

[Edit]
Also, you should be able to hold shift down the entire time.

Did AoK even have a way to continue walls?
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#75 LmScar13

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 03:21 PM

Did AoK even have a way to continue walls?


AoK did not, but AoM and AoE3 (as well as some other games) both used the shift-to-continue-building method.

Personally, I like the way it is now (shift-clicking).

Edited by LmScar13, 07 May 2012 - 03:23 PM.

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#76 oshron

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 04:40 PM

Hmm, I would be very surprised if they would dull their axes by hacking away at a stone wall. Either way, for gameplay reasons it's better to separate unit roles a bit, so you have to use all kinds of units to properly defeat your enemy. Not giving ordinary soldiers the ability to attack walls should also make walls more worth building, since the enemy will have to use siege weapons to take them down. And siege weapons are both more expensive and slower, so the walls will actually make some difference since the enemy can't just throw a bunch of ordinary units against them :)


We do intend to include such a feature yeah, it is not included yet though.

personally, i think it would be good to have some special "siege infantry" included; for example, i designed my mythology mod's ancient egyptians as having axemen with a bonus against buildings because they really WOULD sometimes take axes to the doors of temples and break them down
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#77 vts

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 07:37 PM

100% agree to remove the SHIFT key for continuing walls. With the left/right click it requires no instructions and everyone can find it;


The shift-key is also used to give multiple commands, build multiple buildings, build multiple units, so it is entirely consistent for the shift key to also allow you to place multiple walls. I don't see the point in removing it.

I noticed that foundations are larger than the actual wall (continuing over the limiting towers);


This is actually only the case for the palisades, which originally weren't intended to be included in the game. They will be updated soon.

I like the "snap" to connect a wall to another with a tower. However, also due to previous issue, I was able to create a wall with two tower very near one to the other. Interestingly, the space between them was to low to let units pass through, but, funnily, my units and enemy units could fight in between :P ! Maybe it just would better to use a higher "snap" distance to avoid these "holes";

Do you have a screenshot illustrating the problem? It's not quite clear to me what the problem is exactly.

it would be nice to have an indicator somewhat that let you know if the wall are "connected" (either with walls only or also with mountains).


What would you suggest as an indicator?
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#78 vts

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 08:40 PM

he means the units dont pass between Canyon, cliff, montain etc and a wall structure, the wall must close or blend with a clift.


I understand that, but I mean, what kind of visual indicator would you suggest? Like a highlight, an outline, a glow, ...?
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#79 feneur

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 09:11 PM

personally, i think it would be good to have some special "siege infantry" included; for example, i designed my mythology mod's ancient egyptians as having axemen with a bonus against buildings because they really WOULD sometimes take axes to the doors of temples and break them down

I would say that's included in the capturing of buildings we intend to include :)


About using shift: I played a bit, and I guess it works. It does feel a bit awkward to have to use a modifier key to keep building what to me is one building (or structure rather, but that's not really the point), but I'd say we can keep it as is for Alpha 10 and see what people think about it and so on for a while.
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#80 FeXoR

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 09:49 PM

I would say that's included in the capturing of buildings we intend to include :)


About using shift: I played a bit, and I guess it works. It does feel a bit awkward to have to use a modifier key to keep building what to me is one building (or structure rather, but that's not really the point), but I'd say we can keep it as is for Alpha 10 and see what people think about it and so on for a while.


I agree but ATM I feel like building further automatically and break with right would be the way to go. But I think both makes sense.
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