25 replies to this topic

[plumo]

Showcases and Old maps:

- Lots of errors in showcase maps: Hellenes (Hellenic Royal Stoa), Carthaginian, Persians, other demo maps...
- No Roman showcase map ( if required, I can give it a try...)
- Maybe the showcase maps can be remade, as beautiful towns and real showcases... ( I'm a volunteer )

Wishlist for props (@Mythos-Ruler and @Pureon)

- Don't remove the old Gallic walls please
- Pureon, could you also make a low stone wall to accompany the British Broch ? f.e. Broch walls or This. I think they will look smashing in campaigns as props

Idea for resource shuttling

When soldiers are shuffling resources, they still carry their arms and armour.I don't know what you guys have in mind, but I have an idea for this.

Imagine: you task some Roman soldiers to start mining ore. While they are doing that, they shouldn't carry arms or wear armour. Nor when they are working, nor when they are coming or going to and fro the storage. So: they receive a speed bonus, but also a big penalty in damage and in armour. This would make ambushes much more effective and realistic.

How can they get their armour and weapons back then? Some possibilities:

- They return to the closest dropsite to get their weapons and armour.
- Or a special prop is created like this . ( Check shields/weaponry in right bottom corner) The soldiers who are working / building can keep their weaponry nearby, but ofcourse it takes some seconds to put it on.

[feneur]

plumo, on 15 April 2012 - 09:35 AM, said:

Idea for resource shuttling

When soldiers are shuffling resources, they still carry their arms and armour.I don't know what you guys have in mind, but I have an idea for this.

Imagine: you task some Roman soldiers to start mining ore. While they are doing that, they shouldn't carry arms or wear armour. Nor when they are working, nor when they are coming or going to and fro the storage. So: they receive a speed bonus, but also a big penalty in damage and in armour. This would make ambushes much more effective and realistic.

How can they get their armour and weapons back then? Some possibilities:

- They return to the closest dropsite to get their weapons and armour.
- Or a special prop is created like this . ( Check shields/weaponry in right bottom corner) The soldiers who are working / building can keep their weaponry nearby, but ofcourse it takes some seconds to put it on.

Personally I find that a bad idea, it might look a bit more consistent, and sure it makes raids a slight bit more effective, but it sounds to me like it would add too much micromanagement. Perhaps it would work if it was automatic though, a second or two after they've been attacked they automatically change into combat gear. I'm not sure whether it should really be displayed as anything other than carrying or not carrying their weapons though. Sure it would not be too hard to just create a basic "unarmed dude" texture, but then you would have to select them to get an idea of what they are. Just the weapons should be indicative enough imho.

[Pureon]

plumo, on 15 April 2012 - 09:35 AM, said:

- Lots of errors in showcase maps: Hellenes (Hellenic Royal Stoa), Carthaginian, Persians, other demo maps...

We'll take a look

plumo, on 15 April 2012 - 09:35 AM, said:

- Don't remove the old Gallic walls please

I haven't removed them completely, although they only exist as an actor object now, which isn't much use for defending. If I create entities for them, what should they be called?

plumo, on 15 April 2012 - 09:35 AM, said:

- Pureon, could you also make a low stone wall to accompany the British Broch ? f.e. Broch walls or This. I think they will look smashing in campaigns as props

Do you want the low wall as a separate entity, which has to be destroyed first before the Broch entity can be attacked with non-ranged objects?


Edit: I fixed the majority of demo map errors. I'll let Mythos look at the 'We are Legion' map first as it needs unit replacements

[av93]

Maybe a button, something like a Bellring that makes the soldiers go to get weapons, and later another button to "back to work" . Imho i think that this isn't too much micro

[majapahit]

I think soldiers can still carry armour and weapons while mining but with less capacity and speed compared to civilians.

What I want to see is that soldiers can be converted to civilians to collect resource faster and baracks can be used to conscript civilians into weak infantry unit.

[feneur]

majapahit, on 15 April 2012 - 01:28 PM, said:

What I want to see is that soldiers can be converted to civilians to collect resource faster and baracks can be used to conscript civilians into weak infantry unit.

Regardless of whether citizen soldiers will have full fighting capability when gathering or not (and if not how the transition will take place) this will not happen Citizen soldiers are always both citizens and soldiers so to speak, and other soldiers are always just soldiers. The concept of citizen soldiers is one of the basic concepts of 0 A.D. so it will not be changed. Who knows what modders will come up with one day though

[majapahit]

feneur, on 15 April 2012 - 01:56 PM, said:

Regardless of whether citizen soldiers will have full fighting capability when gathering or not (and if not how the transition will take place) this will not happen Citizen soldiers are always both citizens and soldiers so to speak, and other soldiers are always just soldiers. The concept of citizen soldiers is one of the basic concepts of 0 A.D. so it will not be changed. Who knows what modders will come up with one day though

Hmm, I don't know if we are in the same understanding on citizen soldier but just want to spice up the gameplay experience,

• Soldier at war doing civilian chores of hunter and gathering should have less capacity or speed compared to citizens/civilians because they carry their weapons and armor, if they are equally effective or even more effective than ordinary citizens then the player will not interested in training citizens.
• Some players that have huge army but depleted resources perhaps due their opponents slay all of their civilians, may want to convert some of their soldiers into civilians. Consider this as retiring from service.
• Some players that loves to collect resources may found their army defeated and desperately needs more soldiers. Wouldn't it be fun to turn farmers, etc into militia by putting them into barracks? For the previously soldiers transformed into civilian, we can't turn them back into their previous unit types (micromanagement stuff) but since they are now civilian they can be turned into militia too.

Soldier --> Civilian --> Militia

Civilian --> Militia

Militia should be stronger than civilian but weaker than soldier to add realistic feelings.

[Mythos_Ruler]

All of the soldiers your train from your Civ Centre and Barracks are also citizens (hence the term citizen-soldier). They gather and build just like the female citizens do. This is to simulate the fact that in ancient times most soldiers in the army were in fact part-timers. We have Champion units to simulate the elite professionals. They can only fight, not gather or build. Citizen-soldiers are better at chopping wood and mining, while female citizens are a lot better at food gathering.

@Plumo: Thanks for pointing out those map errors.

[Mythos_Ruler]

Lion.Kanzen, on 15 April 2012 - 06:08 PM, said:

for example but when Qbot are attacking your base/homeland are very difficult find all citizen soldeir to attack him.

Use Alt-Band Box to select only soldiers.

But a good solution would be a "Call to Arms!" button or something and all of the soldiers who are gathering will drop their resources off at the nearest dropsite, ready to defend against attackers.

[Mythos_Ruler]

plumo, on 15 April 2012 - 09:35 AM, said:

- Pureon, could you also make a low stone wall to accompany the British Broch ? f.e. Broch walls or This. I think they will look smashing in campaigns as props

Great reference. Thanks for sharing!

[Pureon]

Mythos_Ruler, on 15 April 2012 - 06:03 PM, said:

@Plumo: Thanks for pointing out those map errors.

Mythos could you take a look at the 'We are Legion' map and decide what units need adding there? (Sorry if you're already doing that )

The other demo maps should be free of errors now.

[Mythos_Ruler]

Pureon, on 15 April 2012 - 06:38 PM, said:

Mythos could you take a look at the 'We are Legion' map and decide what units need adding there? (Sorry if you're already doing that )

Already done, Brosephus!

[Pureon]

Mythos_Ruler, on 15 April 2012 - 06:40 PM, said:

Already done, Brosephus!

Nice

[feneur]

Lion.Kanzen, on 15 April 2012 - 07:23 PM, said:

Band Box XD what is?

Press the Alt key and click-and-drag with the left mouse is another way to say it

[Shield Bearer]

I think for easy identification the units should have their shields strapped onto to their backs and their weapons sheathed instead. Then, when tasked to attacked or ambushed, they should first drop of the resources they have and then attack. The 'Call to Arms' button sounds good, but how will it work? Will it only affect the selected units or all gatherers? Or only those on screen?

[hhyloc]

I think a "Call to Arm" button should work like the militia button in Warcraft 3, except that it'll work on every citizen soldiers on-screen that were gathering. The player can use it in conjunction with the town bell button to get every female citizen to garrison inside buildings for better defense against raids.

[plumo]

feneur, on 15 April 2012 - 10:14 AM, said:

Personally I find that a bad idea, it might look a bit more consistent, and sure it makes raids a slight bit more effective, but it sounds to me like it would add too much micromanagement. Perhaps it would work if it was automatic though, a second or two after they've been attacked they automatically change into combat gear. I'm not sure whether it should really be displayed as anything other than carrying or not carrying their weapons though. Sure it would not be too hard to just create a basic "unarmed dude" texture, but then you would have to select them to get an idea of what they are. Just the weapons should be indicative enough imho.

I thought about Roman soldiers building a camp for the night. Everyone working, every 10 meters an armed soldier etc

I still like the idea ( and no, not because I proposed it). Maybe it only happens when building forts and watchtowers OUTSIDE your own borders?

[av93]

If you have selected the citizien-soldiers, the button could work in those only.
And, if you click on the button in a civil center or fotress, it could be to all citiziensoldiers around

[plumo]

Also: I tried to build the game today and I couldn't open the editor

[FeXoR]

What a button like this should do really depends on many other things suggested here. I like this idea:

hhyloc, on 17 April 2012 - 10:33 AM, said:

I think a "Call to Arm" button should work like the militia button in Warcraft 3, except that it'll work on every citizen soldiers on-screen that were gathering. The player can use it in conjunction with the town bell button to get every female citizen to garrison inside buildings for better defense against raids.

...but only for citizen soldiers actually gathering. The radius that would make sense however is harder to determine. I should include all gathering citizen soldiers nearer to the civil center the button was clicked than to any other gathering building able to garrison. When they have returned there resources they carried they should guard the civil center in a current distance depending on the number of units reacting to the alarm so other units can still pass through them but they are still tight enough packed to have decent fighting efficiency. Non-attack citizens should garrison in the nearest building that can be garrisoned and has an attack at the same time so you don't need to click 2 buttons.

Some things might collide/contradict with this behavior though like stances since citizen soldiers when returning to secure there carried resources might break the command when attacked. I already said in other topics that this is a very bad idea in general but it might be OK if an order priority system is implemented.

Edited by FeXoR, 18 April 2012 - 01:09 PM.