469 replies to this topic

[Mythos_Ruler]

LINK TO MAURYAN CIV PROFILE: http://trac.wildfire...Civ%3A_Mauryans

This thread can be the discussion thread for designing the Mauryan Indians faction. This is the first time we are crowdsourcing the design of one of the game's factions!

Here is a quick rundown of what we need to create a successful Civilization Profile:

• Historical Background and abstract. Need a good essay describing this civilization, its people and culture, its rulers, its achievements, its military.
  
• A civ emblem. Spartans have the Lambda. Athenians have the Owl. Persians have the Zoroastrian eagle. etc.
  
• Units. Generic (Anglicized) and Specific (Hindu or Sanskrit) names. Need reference images and historical reference material. Ideally, no civ would have access to every single type of unit, so some choices need to be made. Available types of units:
  
  • Spearman (basic->advanced->elite)
    
  • Swordsman (basic->advanced->elite)
    
  • Slinger (basic->advanced->elite)
    
  • Skirmisher (basic->advanced->elite)
    
  • Archer (basic->advanced->elite)
    
  • Cavalry Spearman (basic->advanced->elite)
    
  • Cavalry Swordsman (basic->advanced->elite)
    
  • Cavalry Skirmisher (basic->advanced->elite)
    
  • Cavalry Archer (basic->advanced->elite)
    
  • Champion Units x2
    
  • Woman/Female Citizen
    
  • Trader
    
  • Healer/Priest
    
  • Fishing Boat
    
  • Merchant Ship
    
  • Some kind of warship(s)
• 3 historical heroes. These can be rulers or other historical people who had influence within the Mauryan Empire.
  
• Ideas for technologies, civ bonuses, and team bonus. Ideally research would be done for the Specific (Hindu or Sanskrit) names. "Special" Technologies confer bonuses and features not normally given in the more mundane tech tree and are usually unique to this civ.
  
• Structures. Needs lots of architectural references. Colors. Patterns. I'll cast a wide net and say the references can be from 500BC to AD100. Also Hindu or Sanskrit names for each of the standard structures (Civ Centre, House, Corral, Stone Wall, etc.).
  
  • Civilization Centre
    
  • House
    
  • Corral/Animal Pen
    
  • Mill (wood and mineral dropsite)
    
  • Farmstead (food dropsite)
    
  • Farm Field
    
  • Palisade (wooden wall)
    
  • Outpost (wooden tower)
    
  • Barracks
    
  • Dock
    
  • Market
    
  • Temple
    
  • Defense Tower (usually stone)
    
  • Stone Wall/Wall Tower/Gate
    
  • Fortress
    
  • (Any Special Buildings)

Feel free to post images or links to any research you find. For now, this thread can be the repository for references and research.

[Mythos_Ruler]

Here is a list of units I did for a mod I was working on a looooong time ago. I just pieced together a bunch of random stuff I found on the Internet. We need someone knowledgeable to criticize and to pick out the useful stuff from the rubbish.

Spoiler

Pada-kunta

• Type: Heavy Infantry
  
• Primary Weapon: Short Spear

Pada-sainya

• Type: Heavy Infantry
  
• Primary Weapon: Long Spear
  
• Secondary Weapon: Sword

Bagh Nakh

• Type: Heavy Infantry
  
• Primary Weapon: Sword (tiger claw)
  
• Comments: Means "Tiger Claw." They cause dread in enemy units. I know these are anachronistic, but they're still cool.

Kshatriya

• Type: Heavy Infantry
  
• Primary Weapon: Long Sword (Scimitar)
  
• Secondary Weapon: Compound Bow
  
• Comments: Means "warrior class."

Dhanurdhara

• Type: Light Infantry
  
• Primary Weapon: Longbow
  
• Secondary Weapon: Knife

Dhanurdhara-Kshatriya

• Type: Light Infantry
  
• Primary Weapon: Steel Longbow
  
• Secondary Weapon: Knife
  
• Comments: Steel bows are very good and are very effective against elephants.

Turanga

• Type: Light Cavalry
  
• Primary Weapon: Cavalry Javelin
  
• Secondary Weapon: Cavalry Mace

Ratha

• Type: Chariots
  
• Primary Weapon: Longbow

Gaja-Vachii

• Type: War Elephant
  
• Primary Weapon: Tusk
  
• Secondary Weapon: Long Bow
  
• Comments: Elephants with extra men on their backs firing arrows.

Gaja-Indram

• Type: Elite War Elephant
  
• Primary Weapon: Tusk
  
• Secondary Weapon: Long Bow
  
• Comments: These guys are wicked cool. Covered head-to-toe in armor, clad towers (howdah), tusks with poisoned blades on them, and trunks that whirl balls and chains around in the air. Toughest single unit in the game, bar none!

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Other thoughts: I'm thinking they could have a war elephant for the "cavalry archer" class. For each rank another archer would be added to the elephant's back. Like this:


They can also have a Champion Unit elephant, armoured, with a standard bearer on its back. Like this:


One or more heroes would ride elephants, atop a throne or howdah, like so:

[OrganicHallucinosis]

I should point out that the Longbowmen should be the most common unit. Indian Archers where the primary troops in a Mauryan Kings Army. What about Macemen or Clubmen?

The only PDF books i have i sent you, but i can post more books here that i've been told to look at.

Gokhale, B.G. Ancient India: History and Culture.

Keay, J. India – A History.

Majumdar, B.K. The Military System in Ancient India

Singh, S.D. Ancient Indian Warfare with Special Reference to the Vedic Age.

Smith, V.A. Aşoka, the Buddhist emperor of India.

Gonna look into sanskrit names and see if i can find more Miniature books on India.

Mythos_Ruler, on 17 May 2012 - 02:38 AM, said:

---

Other thoughts: I'm thinking they could have a war elephant for the "cavalry archer" class. For each rank another archer would be added to the elephant's back. Like this:
Mauryans_elephant_archer.jpg

They can also have a Champion Unit elephant, armoured, with a standard bearer on its back. Like this:
Mauryans_elephant_armoured.jpg

These are fantastic ideas, I was looking through some books to see if there was evidence of cavalry archers, but couldn't find anything.

Edited by OrganicHallucinosis, 17 May 2012 - 02:42 AM.

[Mythos_Ruler]

Agreed. They'd probably be the best archers in the game, at least as far as range is concerned. They can also have a technology: Steel Arrows; I've heard they sometimes used steel arrows because they are more effective against elephant hides.

[Brightgalrs]

Might I suggest a Buddhist "Stūpa" (reliquary) as the special building?



I've done a quick model, dunno if its any good.

[OrganicHallucinosis]

Mythos_Ruler, on 17 May 2012 - 02:45 AM, said:

Agreed. They'd probably be the best archers in the game, at least as far as range is concerned. They can also have a technology: Steel Arrows; I've heard they sometimes used steel arrows because they are more effective against elephant hides.

Yup, there is also evidence of poison arrows too.



I humbly purpose a champion on a chariot, too.


pictures from the mahabharata

Spoiler

Murals & Architecture

Spoiler

Ahsoka(Devanagari) the Great needs to be a champion methinks.

[Geek377]

Hero suggestions:
Chandragupta Maurya: Founder of dynasty
Ashoka (greatest ruler)
Chanakya : Awesome diplomat who got India to unite against Alexander. He also helped start the dynasty and was really smart. Possible power could be enhanced economics (his work on economics was precursor to classical economics). His impact on the empire was that he pretty much set up the economic, political and military strategy for Chandragupta.

Emblem suggestion: The current or modified Ashoka's lions (used by Indian govt), or the Ashoka Chakra (also used by govt. of India as national emblem). I prefer the chakra to be on the sheilds/banners and the lions to be the emblem.

Also, @ Brightgalrs: Neat model, but in the Maurya period they were just simple mounds. Nothing too fancy until later

As far as architecture goes, they used lots of pillars and neat ornate carvings. And they were good at carving into the sides of hills.

[Mythos_Ruler]

OrganicHallucinosis, on 17 May 2012 - 03:38 AM, said:

Yup, there is also evidence of poison arrows too.

I see a tech pair: Choose between Poison Arrows (1.5x bonus vs. All Infantry) or Steel Arrows (1.5x vs. Elephants & Cavalry).

Quote

Ahsoka(Devanagari) the Great needs to be a champion methinks.

You mean "hero." Definitely. Perhaps he can build Pillars of Edicts around which enemy soldiers don't fight very well and economic activity is boosted.

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Here is the Indian faction from the Medieval 2:Total War classical mod, Europa Barbarorum II: http://www.twcenter....ad.php?t=466774

There is an insane amount of detail and research there on that page. I wonder what we can use and what we can't. Sadly, no architecture references.

[oshron]

iirc, some ancient indian armies that fought alexander used longbows made of bamboo

for heroes, you could perhaps include King Porus, who commanded indian forces at hydaspes (i know nothing about the guy, i only just learned of his existence on wikipedia)

[Mythos_Ruler]

oshron, on 17 May 2012 - 05:05 AM, said:

iirc, some ancient indian armies that fought alexander used longbows made of bamboo

for heroes, you could perhaps include King Porus, who commanded indian forces at hydaspes (i know nothing about the guy, i only just learned of his existence on wikipedia)

His kingdom was rather small and predated the Mauryan Empire by a decade or two, but I'd definitely like to add him as an Easter Egg unit.

I think Geek377's suggestions for heroes are pretty good.

[OrganicHallucinosis]

The Europa Barbarorum guys are insane. They originally did research for Rome: Total War and i knew one of the researchers. The books in my first post are in that list in the bottom.

Everything is sourced, and i'm pretty sure you can pull anything from that page.

Edit: This is the unit roster from the original mod: http://www.europabar...its8.html#india

Edited by OrganicHallucinosis, 17 May 2012 - 05:26 AM.

[Mythos_Ruler]

OrganicHallucinosis, on 17 May 2012 - 05:24 AM, said:

The Europa Barbarorum guys are insane. They originally did research for Rome: Total War and i knew one of the researchers. The books in my first post are in that list in the bottom.

Everything is sourced, and i'm pretty sure you can pull anything from that page.

Edit: This is the unit roster from the original mod: http://www.europabar...its8.html#india

All right, so it looks like our biggest problem is coming up with proper reference images, specifically for structures.

[Enrique]

Some architectural info:

http://gluedideas.co...chitecture.html

[Shield Bearer]

I got a coupla architectural references, which I will make available as soon as I get my hands on the book It also includes a description of the architecture of the time.

[Pureon]

Thanks guys, this is all very very helpful, especially the architectural references!

Please keep the info coming as we need lots of inspiration

[infyquest]

|I agree with Geek,
Two Heros would be
a) Chandragupta Maurya - Founder
Asoka - Its greatest ruler and warrior

I disagree with Chanakya or Kautilya - He was a teacher and poineer in the field of economics and politics.
He is not a warrior, but a great political scientist.

I would like him to be a special hero.
He will become available if the special building called library is built.
This unit will help in improving the economy and diplomacy rather that be of military use.

I will have to find some of my old history text books.

I can try to help with some building references for Mauryan architecture eg: Mahabodhi temple.

Also they should have unique stances (alternativly called as Vyuhas)

[Mythos_Ruler]

infyquest, on 17 May 2012 - 01:04 PM, said:

|I agree with Geek,
Two Heros would be
a) Chandragupta Maurya - Founder
Asoka - Its greatest ruler and warrior

I disagree with Chanakya or Kautilya - He was a teacher and poineer in the field of economics and politics.
He is not a warrior, but a great political scientist.

I would like him to be a special hero.
He will become available if the special building called library is built.
This unit will help in improving the economy and diplomacy rather that be of military use.

I will have to find some of my old history text books.

I can try to help with some building references for Mauryan architecture eg: Mahabodhi temple.

Also they should have unique stances (alternativly called as Vyuhas)

Heroes in the game do not have to be warriors.

[infyquest]

You can also add Bindusara to the heros list, the second emporer of Maurya's, who also expanded the territory very much.

[Pureon]

infyquest, on 17 May 2012 - 01:04 PM, said:

I can try to help with some building references for Mauryan architecture eg: Mahabodhi temple.

That would be very helpful. The more people helping the better.

[infyquest]

Article about military equipment of mauryans

http://www.historum....ryan-india.html