21 replies to this topic

[Thorfinn the Shallow Minded]

This topic is made in order to help give more balance to the game. Please give good explanations for your opinions and perhaps a logical solution that would make the underpowered civilization better if they should be more powerful.

[majapahit]

For balancing civ the usual method is civs with weaker units, fewer units, fewer upgrades, should have cheaper material value when building or training units. So they may be weak on one on one combat but the cheaper unit price makes them capable of building an army faster than other stronger civs.

[wrod]

No civilization is weak it just depends who theu are versing for example if the celts are versing iberians they would probably win if they use dogs but versing athens they would probably loose, and it also depends on the terrain for certain units because let's face horses would be useless compared to archers in a really hilly/mountainus map

[Moros]

wrod, on 25 June 2012 - 09:44 PM, said:

No civilization is weak it just depends who theu are versing for example if the celts are versing iberians they would probably win if they use dogs but versing athens they would probably loose, and it also depends on the terrain for certain units because let's face horses would be useless compared to archers in a really hilly/mountainus map

Why have they been made to be weak against Athens? Hoplite warfare proved not to be too effective against the mobile infantry of Northern and Western Europe. Think about the Galatians who wrecked havoc when they crossed Greece. Or think of the Sabelli armies the Romans fought, though granted those might have been more organised. The Romans dropped hoplite warfare and started to copy and adapt to the Sabelli/Samnites and the Celts. Without it the famous Legions of later times wouldn't have come to be. The Greeks even went from hoplite warfare to more mobile infantry warfare dropping the aspis for the thyreos. (in which to my opinion Rome's role has been more than exaggerated)

If anything there shouldn't really be factions that are good against another, they might have some minor advantages but minor ones. Rather they should be good at a certain tactics or style of gaming. Celts were good attackers who relied on a great charge. Or they performed ambushes for which the Iberians and Celt-Iberians were especially famous. Greek hoplite warfare would be great for defensive playing and holding areas/chokepoints on the other hand.

[wrod]

I was just saying due to the facts that athens have a strong navy celts don't and athens have lots of ranged units while celts are mainly melee and the dogs would die in a hilly terrain vs athens because the dogs have to criss cross to get to them while they get attacked at range

[Zeta1127]

What wrod is saying is an excellent point, the Athenians stack up favorably aginst the Celts.

[Moros]

Zeta1127, on 26 June 2012 - 09:45 PM, said:

What wrod is saying is an excellent point, the Athenians stack up favorably aginst the Celts.

Without doubt. I'm merely stating that while it's not a big deal. I'm hoping certain factions aren't going to be a paper-siccor-rock kinda thing. That wouldn't be all too fun in mp.
Either way, it might be me being a so called noob, but I didn't even notice too much unbalance or something. Apparently just in a whining mood or something, that tossing around some ideas.

[Moros]

Lion.Kanzen, on 26 June 2012 - 10:23 PM, said:

all civs have weaks, even Romans and Hellenistic Kingdoms. my worst defeat was against Persian using Macedon. the Elphants are very powerful, and the black Coated Dacian too Powerful(play Sicilia Map)

And that makes the game interesting indeed.

[Moros]

Lion.Kanzen, on 26 June 2012 - 11:06 PM, said:

the black coated are very superior to spartan hoplite.

Makes me interested to reading into them. While I have knowledge on the dacians and the spartans (obviously), I haven't heard about these black coated Dacians. Makes me think of the balck east germanics in Tacitus, who used black charcoal or something to make succesfull night raids and cause fear. Is there anywhere where I can find some info those guys?

Edited by Moros, 26 June 2012 - 11:09 PM.

[wrod]

Ur right tho because even if 1 faction has an upperhand they can lose due to terrain and strategies because in an open.field celts vs athens.celts would win just by making a bunch of dogs, and I like making maps with spartans vs teams with good long range and melee and since spartans suck fightingat a distance I just surround the ranged units before they notice my spartiates and then attack so they have nowhere to run and then I win ^.^

[Mythos_Ruler]

Let Mythos hit everyone with some knowledge.

Thracian infantry under the employ of Perseus of Macedon during the Third Macedonian War were known to have worn black cloaks and used the rhomphaia two-handed long sword. The reason they beat Spartiates in the game is because of the general swordsman bonus vs. spearmen.

[Moros]

Lion.Kanzen, on 27 June 2012 - 06:06 AM, said:

The Unit is Thracian, its my mistake the name is Rhomphaiaphoros (Black Coated Thracian)

Ah okay now I know what you are talking about. The Rhomphaia was a deadly and fearsome weapon indeed.

[hhyloc]

Lion.Kanzen, on 27 June 2012 - 06:06 AM, said:

are very powerfull but today some Naked Fanatic Celts destroy half of that army XD. the other Half need to garrison in a tower to survive.

*appear from nowhere*

The Gaesatae use swords, so they can indeed wreak havoc on a Spartiates
From my own experience, the Carthaginians are a bit weak, IMHO it's mainly due to their mercenaries units are somewhat expensive and lacking in weapons variety (most mercenaries use pierce weapon, the Italics have swords but they are cost-heavy).
I haven't played Cart for quite a while so I could e wrong though.

[hhyloc]

Yes, the elephants and siege engines is a strength of the Carthaginian faction, but amass elephants is no easy task, you actually have to bring infantry to cover the slow elephants from enemy skirmishers. Native Africans cannot handle the job well enough, that's where we need the mercenaries into game.

Edit: I'll play a few matches with Carthaginians again in order to address the exact issue.

Edited by hhyloc, 10 July 2012 - 08:40 AM.

[Mythos_Ruler]

Carthage has a nice sea trading bonus, so on maps with some water you should set up some trading routes to gain Metal and buy mercs.

[wrod]

and for those of u that dont know u can trade with yourself!
so just build a bunch of docks for the carthaginians and u have a good source of income

[iap]

That's wierd...

[feneur]

iap, on 10 July 2012 - 07:11 PM, said:

That's wierd...

What's weird about trade between ports that belong to the same civilization? Granted, if they are too close it can seem a bit weird, but the amount gained is really small if you put them too close to each other

[Pureon]

feneur, on 10 July 2012 - 09:42 PM, said:

Granted, if they are too close it can seem a bit weird, but the amount gained is really small if you put them too close to each other

We had discussed making it an exponential growth in income - starting with 0 income for a certain distance. Is that not the case?

[Mythos_Ruler]

Spartans might be the weakest, currently.