[Beren IV]

One thing that has occurred to me that seems to make a bit of sense is this: Suppose we have two classes of civilian unit for each Civ. One of them is the standard "cannot defend the town against any kind of force whatsoever" villager, and the other is a more Celt-female-citizen-in-0 A.D. type villager who can defend the town fairly well (but are still not cost effective as major military units). The citizen/militia dichotomy in Rise of Nations is also similar to this, although there, the militia are the same unit as the citizen.

I propose a "tribesman (tribeswoman)" unit for many Civs who performs all of the same functions as the common villager but is more combat-capable and more expensive. Such a unit would be ideal for setting up frontier towns where you expect to get raided, but not cost-effective in your capital already well-defended by your regular army and supplemented by lots and lots of Guards. They would probably not be your primary attack unit (they are not cost-effective as mainline troops either), but are good enough that they could be used to swell your army's numbers if you have been using them to set up frontier settlements.

[draugaer]

This is a pretty good idea, it would work well for dome of the less developed factions, like the hobbits or Haradrim. I think a "shield Maiden" unit was planned for the Rohirrim, which would serve the purposes that you outlined above.

[CrazyThumbs]

I think the Guard is mostly capable of that, but to set up frontier towns I would just use cheap infantry, but the idea could work, would they be able to build buildings like other villagers?

This post has been edited by CrazyThumbs: 15 July 2005 - 01:12 AM

[Rinion]

Sounds slightly like the Norse in Age of Mythology. Their basic military unit also builds their structures.

[dathui]

It's not like it's a unique concept. In warcraft 3 the undead uses the basic military unit(ghoul) to gather wood. the humans can arm their peasants, making them a version of low-armored footmen.

as for TLA i don't think(don't take this as 100% truth) we've decided on anything yet, and we're currently not in position to decide anything of this nature yet.

[Caedus]

Seems a bit overdone to me, as the Guard unit already serves that function.

Quote

Guard
Every Civilisation has a specific Guard unit in TLA - the Noldor are no exception. Like all guard units, the Noldorin guard is cheap and quick to train, and can be assigned to guard specific areas. "Guard Areas" as they are known as in the game can include Caravans, Clusters of buildings, and player-defined patrol routes. While not the best of the Noldorin army, guards serve an important strategic purpose, defending that which drives any war machine - a strong economy. He is armed with a spear, small shield, and light armour.

Abilities: Attack (Melee), Guard, Patrol, Garrison
http://wildfiregames...ldor_units.html

[Black Op]

Agreed with Anco, guard basically fills that purpose.

[Beren IV]

Once the settlement is already established, yes, the guard fills that purpose. I was thinking of the villagers that go out to build a new settlement but haven't built it yet (or haven't built it up to the point where it can have guards).

Yes, this tribesman would have all the abilities of a normal villager, including commodity gathering, good manufacture, and the ability to construct and maintain buildings. The only difference is that they would be more expensive and have better combat statistics.

I cannot think of a civilization that could not have such settlers, since people of frontier towns of any nation, no matter how civilized, will be much tougher people than those in its established, well-policed cities. Since units can gain experience and go up in levels, one simple solution would be just to make villagers quite cheap to upgrade - that way, you wouldn't actually need a separate unit. Of course, the artists might like to draw the tough, frontiersman units of each race.

[draugaer]

Why must every civ have a guard unit, I think that civilian villagers and specialized guard units work for some of the more "established" civs, but I think that a combination villager/fighter would make the most sense for some of the more "barbaric" civs. Plus I think that this difference would help to make the playing style different between the various civs. It would be boring if every civ had the same basic units.

[Caedus]

draugaer, on Jul 18 2005, 06:18 AM, said:

Plus I think that this difference would help to make the playing style different between the various civs.  It would be boring if every civ had the same basic units.

I agree with that. We don't want the old WarCraft style with Humans and Orcs basically having the same units with other models/skins. The added depth of gameplay easily compensates added difficulty with balancing.

[Rinion]

I agree with Anco. That's what AoK did (to a large extent), it degrades the gameplay experience.

[Beren IV]

So, in that case, maybe the Sindar, the Edain, the Nandor, the Galadhrim, the Rohirrim, and the Third Age Dwarves, plus some of the minor civs, should have additional, combat-capable villagers (is "Pioneers" a good name for them?), where as the rest of the civs should have Guards instead.

Actually, thinking about it, probably everybody should have Guards, but the Pioneers would be useful in founding truly new settlements.

[Caedus]

I'm still not sure about this though. I mean, the truly hardened villagers that you would call 'pioneers' wouldn't be villagers in 'real life': they are the kind that train to become soldier.

Maybe your idea needs to be turned around: let Guard units of certain civs have the ability to 'settle' somewhere. Just give them the option of building some basic buildings (like a defense tower) and then let the regular villagers come in to build the rest.

[Beren IV]

In that case, we need to have female guards as well as male guards, but that is otherwise an excellent idea!