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I cannot imagine that the Oathbreakers have not been considered before. Of course, making them for TLA would be difficult, because we know hardly anything about them, save that they did not fight for Isildur when he called upon them, that they used both infantry and cavalry (based on the aparations of the dead), and lastly that their king used a spear (not a sword as in the movie).
Has there been a decision not to include the Oathbreakers, or have they truly slipped through the cracks?
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Oathbreakers Have we missed a civilization?
#2
- Group: WFG Retired
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Posted 29 July 2005 - 08:58 AM
the Oathbreakers would per definition belong to a race of men akin to the Pre-Haladin that simply stayed and settled in the vicinity of the White Mountains - they didn't (like their distant ancestors) make the journey to Beleriand in the First Age.
so we could use them as a Minor Civ in the Second Age with some heavy-scripting to make their appearance as unique as possible.
and no - there hasn't been a decision yet to not include them, but since our current activities mainly concentrate on the First Age, i guess their time hasn't yet come.
so we could use them as a Minor Civ in the Second Age with some heavy-scripting to make their appearance as unique as possible.
and no - there hasn't been a decision yet to not include them, but since our current activities mainly concentrate on the First Age, i guess their time hasn't yet come.
Bernd [ aka Enarwaen ]
The Last Alliance Project Co-Leader, Ardaquenta Admin
Contact me: enarwaen@wildfiregames.com
Visit Ardaquenta - our community driven Encyclopedia on all things Arda!
The Last Alliance Project Co-Leader, Ardaquenta Admin
Contact me: enarwaen@wildfiregames.com
Visit Ardaquenta - our community driven Encyclopedia on all things Arda!
#3
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Posted 29 July 2005 - 12:57 PM
Are you refering to before or after they broak the oath they made to Isildur?
#4
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Posted 29 July 2005 - 02:19 PM
just wanted to point out that it's great that you try to find faults in our tolkien-research, at one point you will probably find something and we'll change it 
keep it up
keep it up
Mikael [ aka dathui ]
The Last Alliance Administrative Assistant
Contact me: dathui@wildfiregames.com
My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
The Last Alliance Administrative Assistant
Contact me: dathui@wildfiregames.com
My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
#5
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Posted 29 July 2005 - 05:42 PM
Quote
Are you refering to before or after they broak the oath they made to Isildur?
I would assume they would be in the Second Age.
They are important in the Third Age as well, and they certainly should be present as units, but the Army of the Dead is hardly a civilization, even a minor one. You can't trade with them, they only exist for one battle before being released to rest...
#6
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Posted 29 July 2005 - 11:18 PM
Yeah, I would imagine them being a few very strong batallions in the Third Age, not a whole civ (minor or not). I mean: a whole lot of undead soldiers can hardly be called a civilization, right?
This post has been edited by Caedus: 29 July 2005 - 11:18 PM
Anco Peeters [ aka Caedus ]
The Last Alliance Semi-active TLA forumer (philosophy student)
Nice Mythology site: Encyclopedia Mythica
The Last Alliance Semi-active TLA forumer (philosophy student)
Quote
"Christopher was always much concerned with the consistency of the story and on one occasion ... interrupted: 'Last time, you said Bilbo's front door was blue, and you said Thorin had a golden tassel on his hood, but you've just said that Bilbo's front door was green, and the tassel on Thorin's hood was silver'; at which point Ronald exclaimed 'Damn the boy!' and strode across the room to make a note."
~ Priscilla and John Tolkien, The Tolkien Family Album, Houghton Mifflin Co., 1992, p. 58.
~ Priscilla and John Tolkien, The Tolkien Family Album, Houghton Mifflin Co., 1992, p. 58.
#7
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Posted 30 July 2005 - 04:12 AM
True, true. You have a point. And anyway, it would probably be a men-only civilization (if it took place in the Third Age), as I doubt any women or children would swear an oath to fight for Isildur.
Off-Topic: Is Dunland a minor civ?
Off-Topic: Is Dunland a minor civ?
#8
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Posted 30 July 2005 - 06:47 PM
As usual, Tolkien glosses over the women and children entirely.
The curse goes "you shall be the last King," etcetera etcetera. Certainly these men would have had wives and children (or at the very least mothers), but you never hear a word of them. The curse that the King in question should be their last, however, implies the end of their civilization. Presumably the women and children are either cursed with infertility, fated to be conquered and assimilated/exterminated by somebody else (I would guess Gondor is most likely), or something like that.
Yes - the Dunlandings are also left out, haven't they... for that matter, so are the Variags of Khand...
The curse goes "you shall be the last King," etcetera etcetera. Certainly these men would have had wives and children (or at the very least mothers), but you never hear a word of them. The curse that the King in question should be their last, however, implies the end of their civilization. Presumably the women and children are either cursed with infertility, fated to be conquered and assimilated/exterminated by somebody else (I would guess Gondor is most likely), or something like that.
Yes - the Dunlandings are also left out, haven't they... for that matter, so are the Variags of Khand...
#9
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Posted 01 August 2005 - 03:59 PM
Will the Haradrim have the Black Men with white eyes and red tongues from Far Harad?
#10
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Posted 01 August 2005 - 05:50 PM
Quote
Yes - the Dunlandings are also left out, haven't they... for that matter, so are the Variags of Khand...
errm - don't put too much weight on things that are on the website and those that are not ...
Bernd [ aka Enarwaen ]
The Last Alliance Project Co-Leader, Ardaquenta Admin
Contact me: enarwaen@wildfiregames.com
Visit Ardaquenta - our community driven Encyclopedia on all things Arda!
The Last Alliance Project Co-Leader, Ardaquenta Admin
Contact me: enarwaen@wildfiregames.com
Visit Ardaquenta - our community driven Encyclopedia on all things Arda!
#11
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Posted 05 August 2005 - 08:55 AM
Well, the women and children can't be oathbreakers sinds they cannot have an oath (I doubt about the masculin children). I presume that in such times as the beginning of the third age, in those parts of middle earth, women did not have honor (They atleast did not have it in the middle ages), so they could not make an oath, thus not breaking it.
And since Tolkien seems such a women hater , he'll probably won't let them have honor.
And since Tolkien seems such a women hater
, he'll probably won't let them have honor.
Loonis Logghe [ aka Mithrandil ]
'Shouldn't we send him a message and call in his help?' Erestor asked. 'It seems that he even has control of the Ring.'
'No, I shouldn't say it that way,' Gandalf said. 'Rather say the Ring hasn't got control of him. He's his own master. But he can't change the ring, nor break the power it has on others.'
No, my name isn't wrong, it's just a combination of Mithrandir and Mithril: look and see: MITHRandI(L/R)
"One can only discuss when he can find reason in the other's thoughts, and then still disagree. When one cannot, he argues" -Noilos
"One is intelligent when one wields the following things: critisism on everything, and keen logics in it's purest form" -Noilos
"Philosophy poses the question why, History answers it" -Noilos
'Shouldn't we send him a message and call in his help?' Erestor asked. 'It seems that he even has control of the Ring.'
'No, I shouldn't say it that way,' Gandalf said. 'Rather say the Ring hasn't got control of him. He's his own master. But he can't change the ring, nor break the power it has on others.'
No, my name isn't wrong, it's just a combination of Mithrandir and Mithril: look and see: MITHRandI(L/R)
"One can only discuss when he can find reason in the other's thoughts, and then still disagree. When one cannot, he argues" -Noilos
"One is intelligent when one wields the following things: critisism on everything, and keen logics in it's purest form" -Noilos
"Philosophy poses the question why, History answers it" -Noilos
#12
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Posted 05 August 2005 - 09:32 PM
I also wouldn't see the point of Isildur cursing them for not fighting for him.
Anco Peeters [ aka Caedus ]
The Last Alliance Semi-active TLA forumer (philosophy student)
Nice Mythology site: Encyclopedia Mythica
The Last Alliance Semi-active TLA forumer (philosophy student)
Quote
"Christopher was always much concerned with the consistency of the story and on one occasion ... interrupted: 'Last time, you said Bilbo's front door was blue, and you said Thorin had a golden tassel on his hood, but you've just said that Bilbo's front door was green, and the tassel on Thorin's hood was silver'; at which point Ronald exclaimed 'Damn the boy!' and strode across the room to make a note."
~ Priscilla and John Tolkien, The Tolkien Family Album, Houghton Mifflin Co., 1992, p. 58.
~ Priscilla and John Tolkien, The Tolkien Family Album, Houghton Mifflin Co., 1992, p. 58.
#13
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Posted 05 August 2005 - 10:43 PM
Beren IV, on Jul 30 2005, 06:47 PM, said:
Yes - the Dunlandings are also left out, haven't they... for that matter, so are the Variags of Khand...
The Variags, Balchoth, Wainriders, etc. should all be part of the Rhunnish civilization, if you ask me.
You can't leave out the Dunlendings though!
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