22 replies to this topic

[NaurwenT]

Yes.
The problem is that Caesar wanted it based on the English pronunciation.

Just one question,
Based on Latin (Classical) pronunciation of the name - /kaesar/ (a=father, e=met sorry, but this forum does not support phonetical characters) - or even the Ecclessiastical or Vulgar ones... I can't understand why this Latin mode you've used, represents "s" with the tengwa for "th", esp. since the Latin language has not a "th" sound, and tengwar are used to represents languages phonemically in an accurate manner.
And so it reads "kaethar".

Could this be a transcription error?
If not, I would like to have a look at that Latin mode, to try to understand its use of the consonantal tengwar.

[Yiuel]

The first column is for the classical latin alveolars, so it is "t d s z n r". latin does not have dentals, so it would be useless to keep such representation.

Now, latin C is represented by the third column, as C used to be a voiceless velar stop. the third colomn would then have k g x () () h. It would be normal to read that "C" as a voiceless alveolar fricative (or affricate, or alveo-palatal affricate) for any medieval latinist.

[NaurwenT]

Quote

The first column is for the classical latin alveolars, so it is "t d s z n r". latin does not have dentals, so it would be useless to keep such representation.

Now, latin C is represented by the third column, as C used to be a voiceless velar stop. the third colomn would then have k g x () () h. It would be normal to read that "C" as a voiceless alveolar fricative (or affricate, or alveo-palatal affricate) for any medieval latinist.

Ok, so you are telling me Latin has not true dental but denti-alveolar consonants, regardless of the apical or laminal quality of Latin t, d, s, z, n or r – that, as far as I know, it’s a question that remains unclear. Fine.
However, leaving the digression about alveolars/dental sounds, and if mediaeval latinists pronounce C as /s/, or /k/ (I'm focusing on Classical Latin, so it should be always hard that is “k”, represented with calma), my question is still unanswered.
I'm curious about that Latin mode, that seems to be based on Early Tengwar charts, using thule for voiceless alveolar-fricative, /s/, when the sound th /θ/ shifted into a voiced alveolar-fricative, /z/.