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Dol Amroth and Narnia

#1 User is offline   Rinion 

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Posted 23 November 2005 - 01:56 PM

I was wondering, how will Dol Amroth fit in?

I see no mention of it as an Independant race, so I suppose it will make up a part of the Realms in Exile.
However, Dol Amroth, tough fitting under his category, seemed rather independant from Gondor, so I find it strange that they should be merged together. A comparison for me would be merging the Aztecs, Mayans and Incans, all very different, into one civilization named South America.
Perhaps somebody can spread some light upon this?

Also, I was wondering whether there was a chance of being able to post things not directly Tolkien-related, but rather more distantly. For example, I have wanted to discuss certain points about CS. Lewis' Narnia with the TLA forumers.

This post has been edited by Rinion: 23 November 2005 - 02:03 PM

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#2 User is offline   Yiuel 

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Posted 23 November 2005 - 02:37 PM

Fiefdoms, this is what Dol Amroth, and most countries within Gondor are.

They are not independant as such, I would rather say that they ressemble the various provinces of Rome, or perhaps, even closer, the Japanese domains under the various Shogunates, in their power. Their titles was either self-acquired (for being the most important man in the place) or given (the various "princes", in Gondor). But then, if we have a distinct Dol Amroth, we would need dozens of sub-civilizations : Gondor is not only Dol Amroth and Anorien... We have Belfalas, Anfalas, Lossarnach etc.
Ugo Lachapelle [also known as Yiuel LeMelvillois]
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#3 User is offline   Caesar 

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Posted 23 November 2005 - 08:15 PM

I would have to agree with Yiuel, and categorize Dol Amroth as a fief within Gondor. It could be compared to a powerful duchy (Grand or Arch-Duchy) in medieval Europe.

Also, you couldnt generalize the Inca, Mayans and Aztecs as South Americans because while the Inca come from South America, the Mayans come from central America, and the Aztecs are from Mexico :)

#4 User is offline   Rinion 

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Posted 24 November 2005 - 12:10 PM

I know. I was using that as an absurd example. Are the four of us (Beren included) the only ones left at TLA? :)
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#5 User is offline   Beren IV 

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Posted 27 November 2005 - 04:38 AM

There's NaurwenT... :)


The way I would normally think of it is for different civilizations to be grouped into hirearchical levels of similarity. Dol Amroth is clearly part of the Realms in Exile, as it is a province of Gondor. As a result I would think that they would have all of the same units, buildings, etc. They might get some specific bonuses, e.g. greater benefits for allying with Elves (or better relations with them), or perhaps experiencing a slightly different rate of gather of some commodities or benefits of some goods. Nonetheless they are Realms in Exile.

Constructing Gondor in such a hirearchy, however, is really difficult because unlike most of the rest of Middle Earth, Gondor is a multiracial society, and is in fact particularly challenging because, in Gondor, the two races, both being different grades of Men, blend into each-other. But this is generally true for most civilizations; the Elves tend to have similar attributes whether Eldar, Sindar, Avari, or whichever of the four ages of Middle Earth, and the same goes for Dwarves, the forces of Darkness (Melkor's major creations excepted), High Men, and lesser Men, respectively. I expect there to be numerous underlying similarities between the Galadhrim (i.e. Third Age Sindar-Avari) and the House of Fingolfin (i.e. First Age Noldor), for example, although I would still expect even more between the Houses of Fingolfin and of Fingon, for example. Yet Gondor should look like some kind of hybrid between Númenor and presumably the Northmen or the Rohirrim (or even the Haradrim).



I'm afraid I know nothing about Narnia that is worth discussing. I plan to see the movie in a few weeks when it comes out. I fully expect that the director will do no better than Peter Jackson at the impossible task of adapting a very detailed book for the silver screen, so I presume that I will not be an expert on Narnia when I walk out of the theatre..

This post has been edited by Beren IV: 27 November 2005 - 04:38 AM


#6 User is offline   Rinion 

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Posted 27 November 2005 - 08:32 AM

Narnia isn't that detailed.

Unfortunately, the way movie-making works these days is:
1. Find a well-known book.
2. Write your own script using the character names, places and creatures.
3. Produce it under the book's title.

These days, Movie-makers only care about effetcs.
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#7 User is offline   Beren IV 

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Posted 27 November 2005 - 08:04 PM

That may be a general rule, but I think it is safe to say that Peter Jackson is a true LotR nut, and despite the number of minor (and not-so-minor) changes he makes to the story, his is a remarkably faithful rendition of the books, close to as well as he could do, given the daunting task he took on.

From what I have heard, the director of Narnia is likewise. I hope for a good show! :)

#8 User is offline   Rinion 

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 07:09 PM

So do I. Only 12 days to go (where I live)!
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#9 User is offline   Beren IV 

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Posted 12 December 2005 - 07:21 AM

Well, I enjoyed it! :)

#10 User is offline   Rinion 

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Posted 13 December 2005 - 05:55 AM

Yay! A post! I was beginning to lose hope... :D
I'm going to see it in on the 16th (premier).

Do you think that Wildfire Games will make any more projects after TLA and 0ad? I hope so... valuable experience for later life, and all that. Do you think they'll make a Narnian RTS?
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#11 User is offline   Beren IV 

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Posted 13 December 2005 - 11:10 PM

The Last Alliance is a sufficiently open-ended project that I doubt there is any real need to. What I would really like would be for a program that could interact with the race migration feature of Age of Wonders, but that would be violating copyrights, I expect.

#12 User is offline   Rinion 

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Posted 14 December 2005 - 07:18 AM

You really do love that game! :D
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#13 User is offline   Deceiver85 

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Posted 22 December 2005 - 11:56 PM

Dol Amroth does not really fit as a indepent civilisation, perhaps they could be honored by giving Gondor a "Amroth Knight" or something like that (thinking of the Siege of Minas Tirith)
You have been deceived!

#14 User is offline   Beren IV 

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Posted 24 December 2005 - 05:12 AM

If there were a separate Dúnedain civilization, and most of Gondor relegated to a generic "Human" or "Men of the Twilight" civilization, then one could make the case for having Dol Amroth separate from the rest of Gondor, including even Minas Tirith. In either of my Arda mods for AoW this is what I do. However, since we have a Realms in Exile civilization, I don't see why Dol Amroth should be set apart from it. At the most, it should be a Wonder avaialbe only to the Realms in Exile that has the unique ability of producing a few otherwise difficult to obtain units (which should include a special ship as well as the knight).

#15 User is offline   Deceiver85 

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Posted 03 January 2006 - 10:07 PM

Realms in exile, sounds really disgusting...I would prefer Gondor
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#16 User is offline   Beren IV 

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 06:20 PM

Quote

Realms in exile, sounds really disgusting...I would prefer Gondor


What about Arnor?

#17 User is offline   Rinion 

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Posted 08 January 2006 - 08:30 AM

I think that that would be better.
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